Are Our Physical Ailments Caused by Spiritual Warfare?

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Are Our Physical Ailments Caused by Spiritual Warfare?

December 5, 2024

Questions about whether our physical ailments are caused by spiritual warfare, how much agency demons have in light of the fact that God sometimes sends them to do things, and how they can be both evil and under God’s command.

* What do you think about my pastor and his wife attributing any physical ailments they have to spiritual warfare?

* In light of the fact that God is sometimes said to have sent an evil spirit to do something, how much agency do demons have? How can they be both evil and under God’s command?

Transcript

Welcome to Stand to Reason's hashtag, S-E-R-S-C-R-S-C-Podcast. Hopefully, you were with us for our last episode because we're actually going to continue on in the topic of demons and the demonic. You ready for this, Greg? I think so.

Let me pray about it. It's funny because I haven't thought about this topic a ton. I thought you said that.

some really interesting things. And the last time, so thank you for that. Hopefully, you have more for me here.

This first one comes from anonymous. I attend a non-denominational church. My pastor has a background growing up in a charismatic church.

My pastor and his wife tend to attribute any physical ailments they have to spiritual warfare. I'm curious about what you think about this. Well, I think what they mean by spiritual warfare is that the ailments we have are a result of a demonic impact in our life.

In other words, the demon causes the ailment, okay? I have no reason to think that's the case as a standard thing. Can demons cause ailments? Yes. And we know that because when we go to the text, and by the way, this is a simple study people can do.

I sometimes wonder why they don't do things like this. It takes a little work, but really it's not that hard. And it's kind of fun too, okay? So you want to figure out what do we know about demons from the New Testament, or particularly the gospel, start in Matthew 1-1 and go to the end of John.

And you can just skim if you want to, until you find some reference to the devil or demons or their influence or whatever. And then just jot the thing, now computers make it real easy. I used to do it before computers with little three by five cards, but now you can do it on a computer.

You can organize all these things. And you survey the relevant material, and they say, well, the gospels. Jesus encountered demon-possessed people.

So what do we learn about demon-possessed people from the gospels? Well, we learn a number of different things. First of all, they can speak with other voices. They have clairvoyant capabilities.

They can make the individual who they're possessing super strong, superhuman strength. I made reference to that in the book of Acts with some Jewish exorcists last session. They also have self-mutilatory behavior.

They also cutting themselves and the demon throws the boy into the fire and stuff like that. Now the demon didn't throw him like picking him up. The demon inside him compelled the boy to throw himself in the fire.

And I think it's the woman... Is it the woman with the issuance of blood or whatever, that for 17 years, suffered and... I think it was a woman who's bent over. Oh, okay, but it says there in the text. There is a... That she has been suffering under the influence of the devil for all these years.

I don't have the exact wording, but the point that's being made is this illness has a demonic source. So one thing we learn is that can be the case, but that isn't the case of every illness. In the book of Acts, Paul makes a couple of statements, for example.

He says, I came to you, I think the Galatians, not sure. But one group that he is writing to, out of personal weakness and illness. So Paul was sick.

There's another case where, excuse me, the text says that Paul left another person, Timothy, whatever, sick in my lead us and move forward. Again, don't hold me to the details there. I don't know exactly the city or the person, but the text indicates Paul is with somebody who's sick and he leaves that person to go somewhere else.

No intimation that the sickness is demonic, which it seems Paul of all people could have dealt with, that gal that was following him, that was demon possessed, and was a soothsayer of sorts and earning money for her owners. Finally, Paul being annoyed after a while, he just rebuked the demon, it was out. And of course, she lost her supernatural powers and that made the people mad because their means of income was now gone.

So Paul had the ability to do that, but he did do that with the sick person that he left, or in his case, when he was an ailing, and when Timothy is ailing, has stomach ailments, he doesn't say cast the demon out, he says, drink some wine. So the textual evidence does not support the idea that all physical ailments or the majority of them or whatever are a result of demonic interaction. Can a demon cause? Yes, we have examples of that.

Do we have reason to believe that that's a lot? No, because I don't see that exemplified in the text and all these other occasions in the book of Acts where somebody's sick and Paul didn't know anything about it because it's just sickness. So this is a belief that is prominent in charismatic circles, especially word for his face circles. I actually think it's a damaging belief.

And the reason is is because if the belief is that people are sick because of demonic oppression and a Christian individual persists in the sickness, then the problem then is generally placed on the Christian. You don't have enough faith to be well. You don't have enough faith to oppose the demonic influence.

We prayed, you have elders pray, whatever, and you didn't get better. They are failing in their faith because this is a demon and we have authority over the demons. That's how the theology is pieced together.

And this turns out to be cruel towards those that are suffering. So I think as a rule, even though there is a possibility because demons can cause sickness to attribute all sickness to demons is to carry this example to an extreme degree and it has negative consequences. It would be interesting to go through all the gospels and count up the number of times where a sickness is said to come from a demon.

I don't, I really don't think it's that many times. Like I think about Lazarus and the man born blind and a bunch of other people where there's no hint that it was caused by a demon. Oh, yeah.

And I can only think of a couple and usually if it was caused by a demon, there are other signs of demonic activity in the person's life. So it's, yes, they fall down and they're foaming at the mouth but they're also doing these other things. The only person who's not like that would be the woman who was bent over.

That would be the only one. But most of them, if they're possessed by a demon, there are other signs, you know, the demoniacs, you know, and anyway. I remember my daughter talked about somebody she knew and he said, he looks like he's demon possessed.

I said, why would you say that, honey? Well, his eyes are all bloodshot and he looks crazy in his eyes. Well, that's Hollywood stuff. That's not biblical stuff.

So I was trying to make a point to her that we have to assess claims like that in light of the biblical record. And look at if anybody who is concerned about this, just spend the next week or so skim reading through the gospels until you find those places that talk about demons, then write it down and then look at all of the verses that the New Testament offers you, the gospels in this case, that reference demons that in the historical record. And I think that's really helpful because you see what is happening, especially with Jesus present and how Jesus responds.

Then you'll have the body of information. You'll have everything the New Testament has to say about demons, I'm sorry, the gospels, has to say about demons and that's pretty substantial. Do not shoot from the hip on these kinds of things.

Do not look at people who say that person looks demon possessed. Why would you say that? He really looks weird. Okay, well, a lot of people who are weird that are not demon possessed.

So, don't- How do you know, Greg? No. So, do not, let's put it this way. Well, who I have no reason to believe are demon possessed.

Let's put it that way. And if I have no reason to believe they are, then I'm safe to say they're not. Could be mistaken, we could always be mistaken about something.

But don't shoot from the hip on these kinds of things. Let the text do the work and it can't be just a verse. You've got to look at the breadth of these things.

That's why I say, start at Matthew 1-1, go to the end of John and then you're going to have the teaching of the gospels, Jesus' interaction with people who were demon possessed. What do we learn about those occasions? And we're going to learn a lot. Demons could put thoughts in your heads.

That's what happened with Satan. They can enter people. And Satan, Judas was not a believer.

Okay, it's really clear from a number of texts. But he was entered. Actually, I think the text says that he was entered twice.

But one of them clearly at the last supper at the occasion of the betrayal. So, the demons have lots of capability and power. But we should not be attributing characteristics to demons that are not biblically justified.

And one thing I do want to say, even if it's not the case that sicknesses are usually caused by demons. And they're not an example of spiritual warfare, I would say probably in most cases. I would also still say that I do think that when we are sick and when we are weak, the devil will use that as an opportunity to attack us in other ways.

So, for example, let's say you have a really serious sickness. You're going to be tempted to think God doesn't love you. He's abandoned you.

You're not really his child. You'll probably experience feeling those sorts of things because it's an opportunity for the devil to tempt you with all sorts of lies. So, even if the sickness isn't caused by that, it may be accompanied by other kinds of attack that you should probably be ready for and be ready to counter with the truth and this goes back to the armor of God that we were talking about before.

I think that was in the last episode. But the knowledge of our salvation, our righteousness, of grace and truth and all these things will help you fight the ways that when you're weak, you will be attacked on. Yeah.

Just finishing up my Bible reading for, you know, I've tried to read through the Bible. I've got like 10 chapters of Revelation, so I'm winding down. It took me four and a half years to do this.

But I noticed there where the text says that the devil is the accuser of the brethren. So, that's another quality we know is part of his in his repertoire to accuse us and when we're feeling like we're not we're not acceptable to God because of our, you know, our sinful life, which we're always going to live with until the end. A lot of times that's an element of spiritual attack where the devil is accusing our conscience and we are not resting in the sufficiency of Christ.

I just use this as an example because there we go to the text and we see this is something the devil does to influence Christians. Be aware, be alert, and then be forewarned because that may be an occasion where the devil is getting at you in spiritual warfare. By the way, another falsehood.

I mean, it's true that we can be accused, but it's not true that we're not forgiven. So, notice that. Another falsehood really is subtly in play here.

And one last thing I want to say about this because in case this is scary to people, it's worth noting here that ultimately there's nothing a demon can do to you if you're in Christ. And the reason why I say that is because God is sovereign, God is powerful. Whatever is happening to you is always it's never out of control.

So, for example, I think about when in Acts 4 when the apostles are saying, you know, all these nations, they're fighting against you, but ultimately they were only doing what you were predetermined for them to do, which is to put Christ to death. Or I think about Job. And there was nothing that the demons were able to do that was outside of God's control.

Go ahead, I'm sorry. So, we don't ever have to feel like, first of all, we have to do some sort of thing. We have to figure out these special formulas or things we have to do.

We can always go to God and we can always trust that whatever is happening, God is using for some other purpose. So, for example, when they were putting to death Christ, they thought they were doing something horrible for their own purposes. But in reality, they were accomplishing God's greatest purpose.

So, even if we suffer from, like Paul did, you know, the messenger of Satan, Thorne and his flesh, even if we're suffering that, we know that God is using it for a good purpose. And Paul's case, he was saying, God was saying, my grace is sufficient for you. So, he was teaching Paul to trust in God's sufficient grace and to suffer in a certain way for a purpose.

So, even if a demon is bothering you in some way, ultimately, there's nothing they can do to harm you because what is happening, God is doing for some other or is using for some other better purpose. Does that make sense? It does, but it needs, I think, clarification and that when you say there's nothing that they can do for to harm you, you mean an ultimate sense because God is in control. Obviously, in the case of what Acts 4 that you cited, Peter had just been whipped.

Well, they harmed Jesus. Yeah, they harmed Jesus. Right, so there are bad things that can happen to you, painful things, difficult things, hardships that can be fall you in virtue of demonic attack.

First Peter 5, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour, but resist him, firming your faith. So, that's not just in people, I've heard people say, well, he's growling, but he has no teeth, nonsense. He has teeth.

And Peter felt it, you know, at the end of the whip. And Jesus felt it. And so, that's not to say that there can't be a suffering in sacrifice that we encounter in virtue of that machination by the devil, but there's an Amy's point, is that ultimately God, this is all part of God's plan.

It's come through his hands and he's going to use it for good, according to his purpose and all, which also is good for us as well. Is that a fair way of qualifying? Yeah, I think about, you know, all these things are building for us in eternal weight of glory. There's nothing that will be lost or purposeless or anything.

So, no matter how any sort of evil spirit thinks that they're getting the best of you, no matter what they aren't. Because God is doing something through your suffering, through whatever happens to you, that is good. And he's not going to allow them to do anything that will ultimately cause your downfall or your harm.

If you're in Christ, all things are working together for good for those who love him and we all know these passages, but they apply even in this case. So, this actually leads into the next question. So, maybe we won't have too much to say on this after that, but this comes from Jenny.

If God is sometimes said to have sent an evil spirit slash demon, how much agency do demons have? How can they be both evil and under God's command? Well, this is a question probing the nature of sovereignty. And I think it's a hard one to unravel. And you take things a little bit further than I do on these questions.

I'm really comfortable with what you've said so far, that there's nothing that befalls us, that hasn't in a certain sense passed through God's hand. It's some might make the distinction between either directly or permissively allowing it, knowing the consequence, the ultimate end, and that he is going to accomplish something good out of it. And that's the promise that we have in Romans 8, which sometimes stated a little bit passively the way you put it, things will work out.

But the text actually says we know that God causes all things to work together. So this is a confidence, this is the point you were making, actually, that God is in control no matter what he says he allows someone to do. Now, Job is a perfect example.

There in Job you have Satan making a request to bring hardship on Job, and God gives him the latitude to interfere with Job's life in different ways. But that happens because God has given permission. And there's a lesson there, and it's the one we've been making, is that nothing is going to happen to us unless God permits such a thing.

And so I guess you could characterize that Job's circumstance, so this isn't the wording that God sent the devil after Job. After fashion, that would be true. And just like the evil spirit that befalls Saul, which I think that's the reference that was just made regarding David and other circumstances or deceiving spirit that he allows to happen.

Okay. Just want to point out something, and this is part of my prayer this morning I was praying about, you know, a lot of things about the nation. But it says in Second Thessalonians that people are deceived because they don't love truth.

So if even if God liberates a spirit of deception, the people aren't just too bad, so sad, they are cooperating with the process because they don't love truth. And so they are vulnerable to the lie. They are just kind of moving along in the same direction.

And so I think that they're, I mean, what does the question has to do with the boundary of the demons, freedoms, and God's agency? Well, both are true in this circumstance. They just play a different role. And God's ultimate goal is some good and that he will accomplish by allowing an evil means to be in play, but he has to allow it or else it won't take place.

And I think that's the critical thing. We both agree on it. You may want to take this a little further.

Well, I think the key here is the intentions. And we see this, you know, it says how much agency do they have? How can they be both evil and under God's command? But we see this happening with human beings too. And one example is the people who killed Jesus, right? So God's intention was for them to kill Jesus so that he could die for our sins, which is a very good thing.

Their intention was to kill the Son of God for all sorts of evil reasons. And that doesn't mean they don't have agency, just that God wanted them to do that for his reasons. They still had agency.

And I think the same thing is true with demons. I think they have agency. They just have their own purposes for doing something, whereas God has different purposes for doing those same things.

We see this again in when God is judging Israel. So he sends, you know, it says directly, he sends a nation to punish Israel. The Syria, for example, right.

So that is the good. His intention is the good justice, right? Their intention, and the text is really explicit on this. I think it's Isaiah 10.

But then God turns around and says, and now I'm going to punish them because their intention wasn't my intention. Their intention was they just wanted to destroy you. They weren't seeking justice.

So even though God sent them an evil nation to do something that needed to be done for justice sake, he still punished them because their agency had to do with a completely different intention. So we see these different examples of how this works. I don't think it takes away the agency of demons just because God is using them for his own purpose.

But ultimately, again, this means that God's purpose prevails. So no matter what intentions any person or spirit or anything has towards you, God's intentions towards you are always good ones. And they're always to make you like Christ.

And they're always as his father to you, his child. And that is something that we can take rest in so that we don't have to fear. We don't have to fear these demons because no matter what they do, God is working for our good.

And that's what I think we have to rest in ultimately. All right, we're out of time, Greg. Thank you all for these interesting questions.

We don't really talk that much about demons. So this has been interesting for me. And if you have another... Some people talk too much about them.

You'll find a demon under every brush. The source of sin is not demons. The source of sin is the flesh.

And this is really clear at a whole bunch of other passages, but notably Galatians 5. So you can look at that towards the end, verse 22 and thereabouts. All right. Well, thank you.

We'd love to hear your question. You can go to X and just use the hashtag STRS or you can go to our website. That's at str.org and look for our hashtag STRS page.

We look forward to hearing from you. This is Amy Hall and Greg Cocle for Stand to Reason.

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