OpenTheo

Did Jesus Lie in Mark 5:39?

#STRask — Stand to Reason
00:00
00:00

Did Jesus Lie in Mark 5:39?

August 18, 2025
#STRask
#STRaskStand to Reason

Questions about whether Jesus lied in Mark 5:39, proving that lying can’t be a sin, when he said, “The child has not died, but is asleep,” and what Jesus meant when he said we need to be “born of water and the Spirit” in John 3:5.  

* Jesus never sinned. Jesus lied in Mark 5:39. Therefore, lying can’t be a sin.

* What did Jesus mean by “born of water and the Spirit” in John 3:5?

Share

Transcript

Welcome to Stand to Reason's hashtag SDRask Podcast. I'm Amy Hall and with me is Greg Koukl. Hello, Greg.
Amy. The one and only Amy. I hope so.
I hope there's not some crazy doppelganger out there. Alright, enough of this silliness. Okay, this first question comes from
Barb.
Jesus never sinned. Jesus lied. Therefore, lying can't be a sin.
See Mark 539. Okay, so Mark 539 is a passage where Jesus raises someone from the dead. Alright, I'm trying to find the context.
There's a, okay, he said, while he was still speaking, they came from the house of the synagogue official saying your daughter has died. Why trouble the teacher anymore? But Jesus overhearing what was being spoken said to the synagogue official do not be afraid any longer only believe. And he allowed no one to accompany him except Peter and James and John the brother of James.
And they came to the house of the church.
He was the synagogue official and he saw a commotion. People were loudly weeping and wailing and entering in.
He said to them, why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep. And they began laughing at him, but putting them all out. He took along the child's father and mother and his own companions entered the room where the child was, taking the child by the hand.
He said,
Talitha Qum, which translated being his little girl, I say to you, get up. Immediately the girl got up and began to walk for, she was 12 years old. And immediately they were completely astounded and he gave them strict orders that no one should know about this.
And he said that's something she would give in her to eat. Now, there's a parallel passage in the gospel of Luke. And Luke 8,
that at the end of Luke 8 has the same account.
But it adds the point that he took her by the hand, called her saying child to rise and her spirit returned. And she got up immediately and gave orders for something to be given to you.
So my take a look at the whole passage is that that this girl was dead.
The spirit had departed, right? And that's why the language and the Luke passage.
Why does Jesus make this statement? She is not dead, but she is only asleep. And I've had the same question myself that is that Barb is asking here.
And so to read the passage
terribly, instead of just presuming out Jesus lied, but he didn't sin. So lying is not a sin. Well, we know it is because there's all kinds of other statements to the contrary.
But this does raise the question of what was going on here. And I think the best way to understand it, again, to read it to death. And I think that when Jesus says she's only asleep, he is referring to the fact that people who are sleeping awake, and he was going to wake her up from the sleep of death.
And so it's not permanent. Are you guys are all wailing as if this is like the end? I'm here. What's interesting to me about this is they're all wailing until he says she's only asleep.
And then they all start laughing hysterically. So how can you go from wailing over the death of someone and then Jesus who has done radically miraculous things in the past and everybody knows it. That's why they called him and asked him to come and he just healed a woman, but many years suffering from the issue, you know, touches his garment, etc.
When they hear that the healer is going to heal her, she's going to, why would they say great? That's fabulous. Instead, they start laughing hysterically. Now, here's what I think is going on with that.
All these people that are there wailing are, they're not family members. They're not even close to them.
I think they are just professional mourners, people that are meant to make a fuss at events like this.
And then when somebody says something, well, they're not mourning to begin with. They just turn a hysterical after. That's so crazy.
All right.
But I think Jesus point is, no, this is not over. This isn't the end.
This isn't the final deal.
And even though when we know NDE is the, the spirit does leave the body, we have remote, remote viewing where a person, soul, a person who is his soul, departs from the body, which now is in repose dead, looks around the room, moves to other places, and then comes back into the body, returns to the body and then arises again. So the body can be dead without the spirit, but the spirit is still around.
And we just know that from NDE and the evidence is really good for that.
So that would be a charitable way of understanding this, not that Jesus is just lying, but rather that he's referring to the fact that she is not dead for good. She's just sleeping, sorta, watch, and he raises her spirit.
Now give her something to eat. So, I mean, that would be the way I would take that to try to take a charitable interpretation of that.
Instead of just simply saying, Jesus lied, so it's okay for all of us to lie.
Yeah, I think he's saying she's not finally dead. I think you're, I think you're right about that. And notice how by speaking figuratively, he reveals their hearts.
They have no trust in him because they laugh at him. Anyone who had any trust, no, isn't this the, is this the situation where the father, where they come and tell him that she's dead? And he says, just believe and come with me.
And he does.
He doesn't laugh at Jesus. He trusts him. And obviously, the father knows, the father's in this room too.
So the father is, if I'm in the right story here, the father knows he's been told she's dead. And Jesus said, don't worry, come with me. He's already kind of set the scene.
He got the news while he was seeing Jesus going after seeing Jesus. So there's a journey that was involved there. Come heal my sick daughter.
And they said, don't bother to teach her anymore. She's dead. So he knows Jesus has heard all of that.
So I have a feeling he understands that Jesus understands and that he's not using this term in the sense that she's going to stay dead, or that she's just sleeping.
He knows she knows he's dead, that she's dead. But he is saying that she is going to wake up.
I think that's what's going on here.
And in fact, he does this again. I was just reading in John 11.
He does this with Lazarus. Now listen to what he says. He says, our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go so that I may awaken him out of sleep.
The disciples then said to him, Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover. Now Jesus had spoken of his death. So clearly Jesus is using the word sleep to refer to his death.
And then it says, but they thought that he was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, Lazarus is dead. So here's a case where he was using that term figuratively, and it says, oh, but they thought he was talking about literal sleep.
So clearly Jesus wasn't talking about literal sleep. He was talking about figurative sleep. In other words, that he was going to wake him up out of death.
Yeah, in this case, I mean, just to be fair to the text, somebody would come back. Wait a minute. She said, the child has not died, but is asleep.
And I think, again, so even with those words, a little different than Lazarus, obviously.
But the words are, I think, are meant to be understood. She's not ultimately that she this is she's going to wake up from this death.
All right. And that's what ends up happening.
And I also, like we said, we know it's not the case that lying is not a sin because God said it is a sin.
And here's here's something that I see sometimes people trying to triangulate God's position on something using all these other things.
When God has spoken plainly about that thing, when God has spoken plainly about something, you should take him at his word. Don't try to work out from other random passages how something else could be true.
Yeah. So that's, I think that's a danger of how to figure out what God wants from us. And then try to read passages like this, charitably, you know.
Well, then what could, if Jesus isn't literally lying, what is he doing? How is he using the language in the circumstance here?
And I think that's the best way to take that. And again, I think by using the figurative language, I think he is revealing their trust in him or their lack of trust in him just by saying the words. Are you going to trust Jesus that he's going to wake her up? Like the dad did.
Yeah. Or he was going to come into the room, by the way. I noticed that detail when I read it, he was allowed to come into the room along with Peter, James and John.
And so it was a, it was a, it was a private session there. And it's interesting. He says, don't tell anybody.
Of course, he already had enough press to keep him pressed.
There he is. So he didn't need anymore.
But everybody, you know, the daughter came out. She was alive.
So here's a question from Jeremy.
What did Jesus mean by born of water in the spirit in John three, five?
All right. Well, this is a, this is one of those passages where it's helpful to read, pay attention to the flow of thought. So this is Jesus conversation with the Pharisee named Nicodemus, who is a ruler of the Jews.
And he comes to Jesus by night and says to Jesus, hey, Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.
And then Jesus just jumps in and it seemed like a kind of harsh, actually, but truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again or born anew. Let me just look at my marginal reference here.
Let's see, unless one is born, um, verse three, sorry. Yeah. Oh, here it is.
Born from above. Born from above. There's another alternate translation.
Unless someone is born, a new or born from above and just think of that alternate translation of me because I do think it ties in here.
Unless one is born again or from above. He cannot see the kingdom of God.
And Nicodemus is perplexed by this. What do you mean born, born again, born from above?
And so Nicodemus says, how can a man be born when he's old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he? Okay. Now, this is really key to me about at least one legitimate way of understanding this passage.
Some people read this.
Well, let me keep going and then I'll come in. Jesus answered, unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
All right.
So, um, that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Now it strikes me, I just read verse five to verse six, water in the spirit, flesh, flesh, spirit, spirit, verse six.
It seems to me such an obvious parallelism that the first kind of birth he's making reference to that is not adequate for salvation is physical birth. Sometimes you're for just water, birth, breaking water, whatever. And the second kind is the spiritual birth being born from above.
That just seems so obvious to me. Now, it might be because the Greek word kai born by water and the spirit kai and could also be translated even.
So some commentators think, well, this means born of water, even the spirit.
So in other words, born of flesh. That's not enough.
Born of the spirit.
Okay. And the water was a symbol in the Old Testament for the spirit. I think in Ezekiel, they actually use this in describing Ezekiel doesn't describing the new covenant, which is the giving of the spirit and water is used as a metaphor there.
I don't have it in front of me, but and this might be why Jesus is saying to the Pharisee to Nicodemus. You're the teacher of Israel. You don't know what I'm talking about.
How is it that you don't understand this because there it is Jeremiah 31 and 31 following and then Ezekiel 36 or so. There is discussion there by those two prophets about the new covenant that Nicodemus should have been cognizant of and then putting the pieces together. So some people take this.
You have to be born of water, i.e. baptism and the spirit in order to be saved. I don't see this in there at all.
I think it's importing a doctrine.
People have been convinced for other reasons. And then, oh, this is what he's talking about here. No, I understand Jesus.
Not following this after this conversation. There's baptisms that take place, but that doesn't mean that's what he's talking about here. And we have counter examples in Acts chapter 10, for example, where Cornelius who receives the spirit just exactly as the apostles had prior to his own baptism and those that were with him in that room.
And that's what Paul Peter says. He said, how can we withhold water from these men, which is a symbol of entry into the kingdom when they've already entered into the kingdom? They've received the spirit just as we have. So I think that the idea that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
I think this is confused teaching. I think it's actually bad teaching. I mean, I know people believe it.
I'm not chastising them, but I'm just saying as a doctrine, I think creates confusion. And this clearly, in my view, is not what's being referred to here. I think probably the safest way to take it in context is that Jesus is saying physical birth is not enough.
You have to be spiritually born. I mean, that would be the simplest way to put it. Water could be a reference to physical birth or could be a reference to a metaphor for spiritual birth.
However, you take the water there.
He's contrasting to natural birth and supernatural spiritual birth. And the second is absolutely necessary, or you cannot, as the way Jesus puts it, you cannot see the kingdom, verse three, or you cannot enter into the kingdom, verse five.
So I think that is a totally legitimate possibility. And in fact, I'm going to offer the possibility I'm going to offer is only slightly different from what you said. In fact, it kind of goes along with what you were saying there at the end.
But I think it's possible that spirit is referring to the physical birth, or it could also be referring to the spiritual birth because...
I'm sorry. Yes, water. I'm sorry.
And I say that because I do have the Ezekiel passage in front of me. So I just want to read this quickly. Ezekiel 36 24 through 27 says, I will take you from the nations.
And keep in mind, this is about the new covenant here.
At this time, they're there in captivity of Babylon. So he's saying that he's going to do something new.
He says, I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land.
Then I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you.
And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and you will be careful to observe my ordinances.
So there he says, water and spirit. And this is a passage talking about what he's going to do in the new covenant. He's going to give them a heart of flesh.
So this could just be a straight reference to this passage in Ezekiel about the new covenant. So either way, I think the main point is he's talking about the new birth that God has promised to give and the changing of the heart and the giving of the spirit. And the necessity of it, the necessity of it.
That's really important too. After you've read this passage, I was just going by memory Ezekiel 36, there it is.
And it mentions water and the spirit at least twice.
And you could see the kinship there between them. It's not enough to be born physically.
You need something else in order to enter or see or comprehend or be part of God's kingdom.
You need a spiritual rebirth along the lines of the promise of the new covenant.
So people have different views on, do you know of any other view that people have on the water in the spirit? I think those are the main things I've heard people say. I just, whatever it is, it's definitely, I do not think the view that this is water baptism is defensible from this passage.
Well, thank you so much, Jeremy and Barb. We really appreciate hearing from you. So if you have a question that you've been wanting to ask, please send it in.
You can go to X and use the hashtag STRAsk or if you don't have an account on X, as many of you I'm sure don't. You can just go to our website at str.org and all you have to do is look for our podcast section. Go to hashtag STRAsk and you'll find a link there where you just click on that link to submit a question.
Write a couple sentences and we will consider your question. And I keep them, Greg. I keep all of them.
And sometimes I go back and I look for things that will fit in whatever theme we're doing that day.
So don't give up. If you sent something in, I still have it.
We haven't used it yet.
And so never feel like it's just going out there and disappearing because I love having a wide variety of questions. So we really do look forward to hearing from you because you are the ones who make this podcast work.
We couldn't do it without you. So thank you so much for listening. This is Amy Hall and Greg Coco for Stand to Reason.

More From #STRask

Should I Leave a Church That Refuses to Preach on Divisive Topics?
Should I Leave a Church That Refuses to Preach on Divisive Topics?
#STRask
August 21, 2025
Questions about leaving a church with biblical theology because they refuse to preach on divisive topics, whether it’s okay to write an apologetics bo
Do Christian Business Owners Have a Moral Responsibility to Provide a Livable Wage?
Do Christian Business Owners Have a Moral Responsibility to Provide a Livable Wage?
#STRask
August 25, 2025
Questions about whether Christian business owners should provide a livable wage, whether doing a corporate sponsorship that promotes one’s business co
“Jesus Had Two Dads, and He Turned Out Just Fine”
“Jesus Had Two Dads, and He Turned Out Just Fine”
#STRask
August 28, 2025
Questions about how to engage someone wearing a button that reads, “Jesus had two dads, and he turned out just fine,” and how to be kind and loving wi
Is God “Divided Against Himself” When He Allows Evil?
Is God “Divided Against Himself” When He Allows Evil?
#STRask
August 14, 2025
Questions about whether the principle that a house divided against itself can’t stand would apply not only to Satan casting out demons but also to God
What Should I Say to My Single, Christian Friend Who Is Planning to Use IVF to Have a Baby?
What Should I Say to My Single, Christian Friend Who Is Planning to Use IVF to Have a Baby?
#STRask
August 11, 2025
Questions about giving a biblical perspective to a single friend who is a relatively new Christian and is planning to use IVF to have a baby, and whet
How Can I Tell My Patients They’re Giving Christianity a Negative Reputation?
How Can I Tell My Patients They’re Giving Christianity a Negative Reputation?
#STRask
August 7, 2025
Questions about whether there’s a gracious way to explain to manipulative and demanding patients that they’re giving Christianity a negative reputatio
More From "#STRask"

More on OpenTheo

Since Most People Are Wrong When They Make Supernatural Claims, Why Didn't God Do Better?
Since Most People Are Wrong When They Make Supernatural Claims, Why Didn't God Do Better?
Risen Jesus
September 17, 2025
Dr. Matthew McCormick, a philosophy professor at California State University, Sacramento, doesn’t believe that there is satisfactory historical eviden
An Ex-Christian Disputes Jesus' Physical Resurrection: Licona vs. Barker - Part 1
An Ex-Christian Disputes Jesus' Physical Resurrection: Licona vs. Barker - Part 1
Risen Jesus
July 9, 2025
In this episode, we have Dr. Mike Licona's first-ever debate. In 2003, Licona sparred with Dan Barker at the University of Wisonsin-Madison. Once a Ch
Is “God the Father” a Sexist Term That Demeans Women?
Is “God the Father” a Sexist Term That Demeans Women?
#STRask
September 29, 2025
Questions about whether “God the Father” is a sexist term that demeans women in general and mothers in particular, how long Hell has been there, wheth
Mike Takes on World Ranked Debator on the Topic of Jesus' Resurrection from the Dead
Mike Takes on World Ranked Debator on the Topic of Jesus' Resurrection from the Dead
Risen Jesus
August 27, 2025
Dr. Shane Pucket was ranked the 32nd best debater in the world in 2012. That year, he faced off against Dr. Michael Licona at Monroe Baptist Church in
Did Man Create God? Licona vs Yothment
Did Man Create God? Licona vs Yothment
Risen Jesus
August 6, 2025
This episode is a 2006 debate between Dr. Michael Licona and Steve Yothment, the president of the Atlanta Freethought Society, on whether man created
No One Wrote About Jesus During His Lifetime
No One Wrote About Jesus During His Lifetime
#STRask
July 14, 2025
Questions about how to respond to the concern that no one wrote about Jesus during his lifetime, why scholars say Jesus was born in AD 5–6 rather than
Is It Problematic for a DJ to Play Songs That Are Contrary to His Christian Values?
Is It Problematic for a DJ to Play Songs That Are Contrary to His Christian Values?
#STRask
July 10, 2025
Questions about whether it’s problematic for a DJ on a secular radio station to play songs with lyrics that are contrary to his Christian values, and
Is God “Divided Against Himself” When He Allows Evil?
Is God “Divided Against Himself” When He Allows Evil?
#STRask
August 14, 2025
Questions about whether the principle that a house divided against itself can’t stand would apply not only to Satan casting out demons but also to God
How Can I Improve My Informal Writing?
How Can I Improve My Informal Writing?
#STRask
October 6, 2025
Question about how you can improve your informal writing (e.g., blog posts) when you don’t have access to an editor.   * Do you have any thoughts or
How Do These Passages Fit with Your View on How God Speaks?
How Do These Passages Fit with Your View on How God Speaks?
#STRask
September 15, 2025
Questions about why, if it’s impossible to miss God’s voice, the disciples incorrectly told Paul “through the Spirit” not to go to Jerusalem, people m
Fighting on Different Hills: Licona and Ally on the Resurrection of Jesus - Part 1
Fighting on Different Hills: Licona and Ally on the Resurrection of Jesus - Part 1
Risen Jesus
August 13, 2025
In 2004, Islamic scholar Dr. Shabir Ally and Dr. Mike Licona met at Regent University to debate the physical resurrection of Jesus. Both cases, a live
Is Doing the Right Thing a Sin If You Truly Believe It’s Wrong?
Is Doing the Right Thing a Sin If You Truly Believe It’s Wrong?
#STRask
September 22, 2025
Questions about whether Romans 14:23 means that doing the right thing is a sin if you truly believe it’s wrong, and how to reconcile Hebrews 10:16, wh
What Are the Top Three Apologist Pitfalls to Watch Out For?
What Are the Top Three Apologist Pitfalls to Watch Out For?
#STRask
October 2, 2025
Question about the top three pitfalls to watch out for when you start using apologetics in conversations with others.   * What are the top three apol
Are Works the Evidence or the Energizer of Faith?
Are Works the Evidence or the Energizer of Faith?
#STRask
June 30, 2025
Questions about whether faith is the evidence or the energizer of faith, and biblical support for the idea that good works are inevitable and always d
What Should I Say to My Single, Christian Friend Who Is Planning to Use IVF to Have a Baby?
What Should I Say to My Single, Christian Friend Who Is Planning to Use IVF to Have a Baby?
#STRask
August 11, 2025
Questions about giving a biblical perspective to a single friend who is a relatively new Christian and is planning to use IVF to have a baby, and whet