Interview: Patrick Melder, Christianity & Bitcoin (part 2)

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Interview: Patrick Melder, Christianity & Bitcoin (part 2)

November 10, 2021

My guest this week is Patrick Melder. Patrick is a trained Ear, Nose & Throat surgeon, and sleep specialist. He trained at Walter Reed Army Medical center and was on active duty with the US Army for 13 years. He left the Army in 2006 as a Lieutenant Colonel and started his private practice career. Patrick did his undergraduate studies at Houston Baptist University and attended medical school at Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. He was an Alpha Omega Alpha graduate. Patrick holds nearly thirty US and international patents. Patrick has been involved in church ministry from positions as an elder and lay missions pastor. He is passionate about God’s mission to the ends of the earth. He’s been on numerous mission trips to: Guatemala, Indonesia, India, and Ukraine. Patrick is also a serial entrepreneur. He first learned about Bitcoin in 2013 but made his first purchase in 2018 and has HODLd ever since. He’s written extensively about Bitcoin’s truths and the impact it has on believers and non-believers. His essays can be found on Medium @67corvette. Patrick also hosts a weekly podcast: Mission:Bitcoin wherein he interviews guests and discusses the intersection between Bitcoin and Christian faith.

Contact me (forthekingpodcast@gmail.com) or Patrick (pmelder@me.com) for "BFC Quick Start Guide"

Patrick's Links:

* For Swan: SwanBitcoin.com/Mission21M

* For Bitcoin Lake in Guatemala on Twitter: @LakeBitcoin

* His Twitter: @entsurg Podcast

* His Twitter: @Mission21M

* His Medium: https://67corvette.medium.com/

* His Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mission-bitcoin/id1579377817

Key Texts: Proverbs 13:11; James 2: 14-16

Website: forthekingpodcast.com

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/For-The-King-105492691873696/

Contact: forthekingpodcast@gmail.com

Donate Crypto: https://commerce.coinbase.com/checkout/f63fd7db-919e-44f6-9c58-8ec2891f3eb5

Transcript

Hey everybody, thanks for listening to the For The King podcast. This episode is the second part to my conversation with Patrick about Bitcoin and Christianity last Wednesday. So to give a little context, that's what we're kind of picking up in the middle of the conversation.

We begin this episode talking about the adoption of Bitcoin and then move on to other things about why Bitcoin is important for churches. So that's where we're at. So there's a little context that way you don't have to go back to the part one to listen to if you already have that there's some context for you guys.

So I hope you're enjoying this series. And this is me wrapping up my conversation with Patrick. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Please go support him. I put all his links and things in the notes. So I hope you enjoy the rest of this conversation.

Thanks for listening to the For The King podcast. There weren't enough Christian voices. I started the first Christian podcast for Bitcoin.

I know. Yeah. Crazy.

It's crazy. And so we the reason we got into this mess is because where was where were Christians when Keynes was promoting his economic policies to say no, this doesn't there's no biblical framework that this makes sense in. Don't think I will even ask you to make Jesus Lord of your life.

That's the most preposterous thing I could ever tell you to do. Jesus Christ is Lord of your life. Whether you serve him or not, whether you bless him, curse him, hate him or love him.

He is the Lord of your life because God has given him a name that is above every name so that the name of Jesus Christ every knee shall bow in tongue confess that he is Lord. Some of you will bow out of the grace that has been given to you and others will bow because your kneecaps will be broken by the one who rules the nations with a rod of iron. And I'll not apologize for this God of the Bible.

Yeah, no, that's that's good. I just I kind of wanted to walk through that because we've seen it's the adoption, the mainstreamness of crypto and especially Bitcoin. I mean, Walmart, I think last week, Walmart is now putting Bitcoin, ATMs, you know, in their stores, you know, so yeah, mass, mass adoption.

I think I was listening to something today and there is some athlete that's now being paid and you know, that's happening. People want paid in Bitcoin because it's inherently deflationary and it's a great store of value. So that because it's a great store of value, how do you think it works as a currency? That's a question I had and I think the audience might have that if it's if it's like gold and it's just it's deflationary, what do you want to hold on to it? Why would you ever want to spend it if it's deflationary? You know, that's a great question.

So I think right now in this early adoption phase, I mean, if you look at adoption curves for technology and Bitcoin is a technology, it's not just a money. We're so so early. So yeah, right now, you probably don't want to be spending your Bitcoin, you want to save it.

And so right now, it's as a function of money, it's performing the store of value function, you can definitely spend it. In fact, El Salvador just legalized it as as legal tender on the sixth of September. And you can go anywhere in El Salvador and spend Bitcoin.

And there are a lot of merchants that are now starting to accept Bitcoin. So you can spend it as currency. And I would challenge the listeners to find any other cryptocurrency where you can use it as currency.

And so correct, right now is probably not the best time to be spending it. It's probably better to hodl it as we call it. But you can definitely spend it if you want to.

So you're saying eventually that the price will the volatility of the price will mellow out and we'll have once once full adoption comes, it won't be going up 10s of thousands of dollars, it'll be it'll be very useful as a currency. Yeah. So if you look at the volatility of it, if you if you hold Bitcoin, if you make an initial purchase of Bitcoin and you hold it for it's a it's a little over three and a half years, you will not lose any Bitcoin.

Okay, the the pro in fact, you'll you'll gain a significant amount. The reason why the three and a half year mark is important is because what happens in that three and a half year timeframe is there's a lot of volatility up and down and people panic sell. And if you just held on to it, you would ride the wave of 200% per year, but people tend to panic sell at the bottom.

So if you buy Bitcoin and hold it for at least three and a half years, you will not lose any of your money and you will gain that 200% per year. Now, as Bitcoin gains and adoption, yes, the volatility will smooth out, but it's probably going to be another 10 to 15 years before we get a complete smoothing out, it's going to have to completely capture all of the monetary assets out there right now that are going to collapse. And I can go through that right now.

But the it's probably about 10 to 15 years before the volatility is completely smoothed out. Sure. Yeah, I guess you can walk through that a little bit about adoption, if you wanted to.

Yeah. So right now the market cap of Bitcoin is about a trillion dollars. If you think about gold, gold is about 13 trillion.

So we've got a 13 X run between now and the time Bitcoin overtakes gold. If you look at bonds, I don't have all the figures in front of me right now, but the total cap of monetary assets that that Bitcoin could swallow hovers between about 200 trillion dollars total world assets up to about 400 trillion dollars. So if you just take if you just take the low end of the assets that it could swallow, we've got about a 200 X return from where we are right now.

So it's not too late to start investing in Bitcoin. And the other the other thing about Bitcoin that a lot of people don't understand is you don't have to buy if you're scared of, you know, the $50,000 number or the $60,000 number, you can buy fractions of Bitcoins called satoshis. And the you may you may think you may be asking yourself, is it really going to swallow all that monetary value? And the answer is yes.

Because if you think about, you know, why is the stock market going up? Why are home prices storing? It's because if you've got cash, you're going to put it into an asset that is going to appreciate in value. So if you get cash, you're going to buy stocks, or if you have a home, you're going to put it into your home. And that that just causes inflation of prices.

And so you think about the bond market, if you're if you check out if you buy and I've never bought bonds, but if you buy a bond, and right now you're getting a negative yield, a negative real yield compared to inflation, it doesn't make any sense to buy a bond. Yeah, the bond market bond market's probably going to be the first major market to be swallowed by Bitcoin. I mean, if you're if you're an investment firm or a retirement account firm, a pension plan firm, and you and you're got all your money and bonds because they're quote unquote safe, but you're you're getting negative yield because of inflation.

That doesn't make a lot of sense when you could purchase Bitcoin into your pension plan. And we're starting to see that the Houston firefighters pitching plan just recently purchased a bunch of Bitcoin, the New Zealand trust pension purchased a lot of Bitcoin earlier this year. So we're going to we're going to see a gradual implosion of the bond market for sure is the first step.

Oh, yeah, I mean, with a 2% yield, with 5% inflation is what happened this year. I mean, you're getting destroyed. I mean, it's not but that's that's not even real, rock.

I mean, that the 5% numbers what's being reported, but I've listened to economists and most are saying that real inflation is easily over 10%. Probably 15%. I mean, look at the price of lumber over the last year has gone up 400% Yeah.

You know, I remember my, yeah, my soon to be brother in law was telling me about that. He's like, dude, you can't get any lumber right now. It's crazy.

So yeah, inflation is I don't know. That's weird that they would push that narrative that they would try to, you know, they wouldn't report what's really happening in terms of inflation because it's Yeah, I mean, it's definitely you can definitely feel it. Okay, I talked to well, I'm sorry, just the reason.

The reason why is is manipulation. And we don't like to think about our policymakers, but that's that's what they do. And one of the economists I spoke with I had him on my podcast, Dr. Peter Sanong.

When inflation gets to over 10%, you start getting civil disobedience. So the longer they can push the narrative of low inflation or relatively low inflation, then they can keep the masses so to speak calm. But you know, you get over 10% you start having some real issues.

Yeah. Oh, that's the point. Do you think CBDCs are going to be contenders for Bitcoin? I think they're they're going to try.

But the problem with CBDC is they're centralized. And the Chinese digital one you on has already come out. And they're tying that to social credit scores.

And so they can give you amount of money. And if you don't do what they want to, they can take it away. Or if you don't spend it in time, they can take it away.

So yeah, CBDCs are going to try to contend with Bitcoin, but they're not going to win. Yeah, I pray to Lord to the Lord that they don't I mean, yeah, it's the same old trick. It's just digital.

It's a sense. I mean, it's no different. And that's right.

That's exactly right. Bitcoin is radically different. And that's what we're trying to really get at here.

And why Patrick is very passionate about obviously, and birthing some passion in me as well. Well, and Rocky, I think that's primarily because you know, one of the other reasons that I got into writing and a podcasting is there weren't enough Christian voices. There aren't any I started the first Christian podcast for Bitcoin.

And I know, yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. And so we the reason we got into this mess is because where was where were Christians when Keynes was promoting his economic policies to say no, this doesn't there's no biblical framework that this makes sense in.

And so that's why I feel like Christians need to get involved in this. And I'd love to discuss the other reasons Christians get involved this at the end about churches and missions and all that. Yes, yes, I want to do that.

Why just just to run with you a little bit on that. I mean, we're the trendsetters like Christians are the we're the ones that are like, like God's original, like, if you want some creative originalness, like you need to submit to Christ, you need to bend the knee to Jesus, like he's the one that's creative. It's just rerun like all the other stuff we see in the world.

It's just like, you know, Ecclesiastes says over and over again, there's nothing new under the sun. I mean, it's just like we were talking about the CBDC. There's nothing new under the sun.

They're just going to try to do that. They're going to pull the same trick. And that is, yeah, again, Bitcoin's radically different.

It's it's based on natural law, God's law of, you know, fairness, equality under the law. Yeah, do you have anything you want to? Yeah, just no, I mean, that's that's that's the really so from a from a justice perspective, I mean, if we really want to, you know, I'm not into the BLM social justice movement, because it's it's Marxist. But, you know, I've told my girls before I said Jesus was the original social justice warrior.

I mean, if you want to see how to take care of people, Jesus is our example. And, you know, if we really want to fundamentally help people live better lives, those are that are disadvantaged, we need to give them a monetary tool like Bitcoin, which no one can ever take away from them that always values their time for what it's worth. And in fact, you know, if you start investing in Bitcoin now, you're actually going to increase the value of your time.

And, you know, I've been all over the world and poverty looks the same no matter where you go, you know, people just working as hard as they can, because their their time is just, you know, being squandered away. And it excites me to think that people in El Salvador now are going to have a means to escape, you know, monetary oppression of the fiat system. And that's, I think this is probably one of the biggest tools that we can bring to the mission field is is something like Bitcoin.

Yeah, no, that's awesome. So let's get into that. Now, let's bring it.

Let's bring it down to earth. You know, we're talking theory, we're talking principles and natural law, you know, like, like things that are in the mind of God, but let's bring it down. Let's incarnate it into what we're doing here.

You know what I mean? Just as Christ came and incarnated himself with us. Let's talk about how Bitcoin, like you're saying, can go into a society. And based on what, what true freedom looks like, can give that to people that are poor, that nobody can take their time from them, something that they work hard to gain, that they can't have it taken from them.

And they can actually, you know, build generational wealth, which is not a bad thing. It's not evil for Christians. It's the love of wealth.

That's right. God owns cattle on 1000 Hills. If it was right, it was evil to be rich, God would be the most evil being in the universe because he's the richest, you know, that doesn't follow.

And so many Christians think that that money is just inherently evil. Money is a great tool, you know, but it's a really bad master, you know, so that's right. What do you think about all of that and how Bitcoin can come into a society like you're saying, like, how's that practically work? And then let's get into the church thing.

Let's get into what you would have the listener do somebody that doesn't know where do they buy it, you know, cash app or an exchange what you know, all that. Awesome. So the I think to speak to your point, why Christians think poorly about money is because we live in such a deranged monetary system that most of what they see about money is just so corrupt and evil.

And that's probably why but you're right. It's it's ludicrous to think that the Lord does not want us to have wealth, because it's spoken of so much in the Bible. But let's, let's just talk about it for us as individuals, and then we'll kind of trickle down to the lesser in society and how it can impact them.

So I think fundamentally, you know, if you're someone who is working a job, maybe living paycheck to paycheck, or, you know, you might be doing well, but you're still having a hard time keeping up Bitcoin saving and Bitcoin would allow you to instantly create time, because if money is time, and Bitcoin is appreciating in time, then as the price of Bitcoin goes up, you're creating more time for yourself. So, you know, why do Christians get caught up in the consumerism? Well, it's forced on to us by fiat. Why do we not spend time with the Lord? Why do we not spend time with our family? It's because the fiat mindset has is driving us to consume and earn because we can't save and save our time.

So immediately converting into Bitcoin or saving into Bitcoin would allow you to recapture that time, have the time to spend with your family, develop a low time preference mentality, delaying gratification, which the Lord wants. So it would allow us to immediately get in tune with the time preference thinking of the Lord, which we all need to do. And we all talk about it, but it's so hard, because the the economy that we live in, the world that we live in, is so contrary to God's time.

And, you know, I'll just speak for myself, I mean, for years, did I want to spend more time with the Lord? Did I want to spend more time with my family? Yes. But when you're when you're in a system that forces you into a high time preference, it's very, very hard. So I think that's number one.

And then, number two, from a Christian perspective, storing wealth and being able to pass it down to your to your, the next generation, Bitcoin is is going to allow you to do that, like no other asset or money in the history of the world. In fact, most people are calling this a black swan event, something that's probably never going to happen again. I mean, we're seeing history unfold before us, we've never seen a money develop right in front of our eyes like this.

And the so if we think about that on a personal level, and we we go to the mission field or to a developing country, where they don't even have the ability to save, they don't have they don't have a bank account. So they can't save for a vacation, they can't save for a new car, they have to consume as soon as they get it because they don't have a bank, bank account in El Salvador, for instance, 70% of Salvadorans don't have a bank account. And so Bitcoin becomes your bank, if you can remember the seed phrase in your head, then you you carry your your Bitcoin in your head, so to speak.

So you're, you're instantly giving access to banking services to people that have never had it before. And they're going to be able to save, build generational wealth that they've never been able to have before. And now they're going to be able to say, you know, for verbally, you know, take this job and, you know, do what with it.

So the Bitcoin gives people freedom to be free from monetary oppression and political oppression. Oh, yeah, 100%. And I love the peer to peer nature of it, you know, you don't have to go, it's not like your banks are talking, it's like me and you get to decide, like, what the fees are, you know, there really isn't, you know, the transaction, right? When it's so minuscule, you know, and things actually settle, you don't have to wait for the bank to settle something, you don't have to do a domestic or international wire transfer, that's going to crazy fees, you can send internationally.

And it's just between you and the person that you're transacting with. And it's a great system. And somebody else, Salvador can, I can, I can send them money, you know, and this can get into the, you know, Bitcoin for churches and how you can support somebody so far away with an asset that's not going to deflate or nothing, you don't have to worry about in terms of transaction fees and all that.

So anything that, yeah, it's instantaneous. I mean, I've run, as I said, a business and I've had to do a lot of international wires to China for products and supplies. And, you know, it can take three to four days or weeks depending on what's going on.

If there's a Chinese New Year, then who knows? And with, with lightning or Bitcoin, with lightning, it's almost instantaneous. And with Bitcoin on the on the main chain, you know, within about 20 or 30 minutes, you can send millions of dollars if you want to. The, and the beauty of, you know, the other thing about the in the developing country and El Salvador, one of the major issues with the poor in that country is they've got family members that live here in the States.

They want the family member wants to send them dollars. So they have to send it via Western Union or MoneyGram. Well, 20 almost 25% of the Salvadoran economy is remittances, money coming from outside in.

And these companies MoneyGram Western Union can take up to 20% in remittance fees. And so yeah, so they're, they're expecting, they're expecting a three to four percent jump in their GDP, just because they're getting rid of all those fees. And so you can imagine if the US had a jump in our GDP to three or 4%, that would be tremendous.

I mean, when Obama was in office, it was about 2%. And Trump wanted to get it up to 4% the GDP and everyone laughed at them. But El Salvador is going to be be able to do that almost overnight, just by getting rid of the friction that the rent seeker of MoneyGram and Western Union that that industry is going to go away.

And then from a from a church perspective, yeah, not only being able to send money almost instantly without conversion fees and frictions of MoneyGram and and whatnot to missionaries. But imagine a church taking their treasury for like, you know, a lot of churches when they get to a certain size want to build a building. In fact, there's a I did my Bitcoin for churches seminar with the church up in New York.

And that church had $700,000, no $800,000 in a an account for a building. It was cash just sitting there. And the pastor took that money, invested it in Bitcoin, and now sitting on several million dollars of Bitcoin.

So you can you can imagine that a church may never have to raise money for Bitcoin or for a building again, they may never have to go through capital campaigns. I've been to many church, not many, but I've been to several churches where a capital campaign to fund a building will actually literally split the church because some people are really for it. And some people are really against it.

But you know, if if the if the regular offering if a certain percentage of the regular offering just went into Bitcoin, and they held it for three and a half four years, they may be able to just buy church, you know, cash. And so that's, that's the, that's the really phenomenal thing about Bitcoin for churches is being able to actually leverage the exponential growth of Bitcoin, and never have to fund social programs again, because because of the price appreciation of Bitcoin. Yeah, that's awesome.

And you could as a pastor, you could not take a salary from the church, if it's in Bitcoin, it could pay for that, you know what I mean? The appreciative, like how I would appreciate over time that could, that could, you know, fund your pastor, or, you know, it could fund, you know, it could fund everybody's salary. If, you know, if they went through kind of a regimented disciplined giving program for, you know, three to four years, and then put it all into Bitcoin, or a certain percentage into Bitcoin, it's possible that you can have churches that never have to raise money or borrow money, or then that's the other thing about, you know, how is fiat affected our churches? Well, we have a lot of churches that do just what we do, they go out and take on huge debt. And that's not godly, that is not a godly principle, and that filters down to the congregation.

Well, if my church is taking on large debt for the church building, then maybe it's okay for me to take out a large debt for my home and my boat or whatever. And believe me, I've done that. I've, you know, I'm guilty of all those things.

But imagine how we could change that thinking, if we had an asset like Bitcoin that our churches were familiar with and using. Yeah, no, that's a great thought. So little nuance to that, how would you get like, for instance, when you said you went to Michigan to do the Bitcoin for churches or where? New York, I actually did it virtually, but it was a church in New York.

I see. Okay, so a church in New York, did the elders meet and agree and the congregation just had to go with it? Or was there a whole congregational vote to say, yes, we want our funding to go towards Bitcoin? Like, how do you get that kind of how do you get the church, the whole church to agree that we agree with this technology, we think it's going to be good for the kingdom of God, we agree, we're going along with it, like, does everybody have to agree or majority? How did that work at the church? I'm curious. Well, that church, they're an elder led church, and have a board, I don't think they I think they were informing the church what they're doing, but they were not a congregational led church.

And so I think it's really going to depend on the type of church governance you have. But I think that no matter which model of governance you have, there still has to be an education piece. I mean, it's a lot easier to educate a small group of people than a large group of people.

And that's why I did the seminar. But there has to be a fundamental education component to it. And the way I approach it is, and the way I put my course together, is I approach Bitcoin and fiat from the moral perspective.

First, I don't, I don't approach Bitcoin with, wow, you're going to make a lot of money, you know, what we call in Bitcoin number go up in GU technology, because when you start thinking in those terms, it just becomes another investment, and you don't buy with conviction. And if you don't buy with conviction, you don't hold it. And if you don't hold it, you're going to, you're going to panic sell.

But if you if you're morally convicted about our fiat monetary system and can, and drive that home, and show the moral superiority of Bitcoin, it really becomes a no brainer. So that's kind of how I approach the educational component in that setting. No, that's, that's awesome.

I love that you do that. That's how Christians should always argue for anything. You know, it's like, so for instance, I'm in the environmental field, totally different conversation.

But I think it's unloving to your neighbor to spill, you know, a chlorinated solvent or to, you know what I mean? So for me, like when I do my work, or even when we're talking about economics, like theology is the cornerstone, Christ is the cornerstone, and knowing about him, obviously, and what he's taught us, that's the cornerstone for whatever we do. So I love that you are presenting this in that light. And, you know, for all you guys that listen, you need to go check out his stuff.

I mean, that's, that's the way you go with it, Patrick. And it's, it's glorifying to God that way. It's not, it's not worldly.

It's not here, here's a way to make money. It's, it's got a perspective on it. That is it's vertical first before it's horizontal, you know, absolutely, absolutely.

And you know, the thing you said about the environmental spill and all that, you know, it's things like that, though, that, you know, Christians were kind of late to the game and being environmentalists and, and we, we, we let the left kind of take that narrative from us when we're the ones that were commanded to be good stewards, and that should be at our ethos. And the other thing, kind of a question I asked in my seminar is, you know, if you see a question of who the, who is the smartest person that ever lived, you know, and I put up four different names, well-known names, and then E other, and I went on, I gave the question that I went on in the presentation for a little bit, and then I came back to the question. And, you know, if the participants are like me, and they're thinking, sometimes I think that Jesus is the smartest person that ever lived.

But in the back of my head, it's like, I don't, is that legitimate? Is that a legitimate answer for a question like this? And the truth is, yes, it is. I mean, the creator of the universe was walking in human form in flesh. And so yes, he was the smartest man.

And so, and the Bible is the is the greatest book that's ever written, it should be, it should inform everything that we do. And I think when it comes to monetary policy, and sometimes even with business, it doesn't, you know, we've heard the, we've heard the phrase a lot. Well, that's just business.

Well, do we want to treat our neighbors like that? No, we should. No. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Worlds, you have to consider if righteousness or not, you know, so many Christians, like you're saying, get wrapped up and what the way, you know, thinking the way the world thinks, and it's like, we need to think biblically, that's why we're Christians, like, that's the whole point, you think based on what the Bible says about worlds, you know.

And you walk through that in your writings, it's there's there's like a there's a tiny poke in each one of your writings, there's like a tiny polemic, like against atheism, it's kind of apologetic to when you write, I really like it. Because it's talking about Bitcoin, but then you work apologetics in there and evangelism. And it's like, I think we're just it just shows that when Christians think biblically, it all comes together.

And it's just going to happen naturally apologetics evangelism, it's going to happen naturally. Yeah, so that's a great point. So in fact, my first podcast, after the trailer is with a dear friend of mine now, he was an atheist, a militant atheist, and ran across, ran across my writings, I actually had used some of his quotations from Twitter and some of my writings.

I didn't know who he was. He contacts me and says, Patrick, I need to talk to you. I said, Okay, great.

So I, we zoomed together. And I led this, I led him to the Lord. And I am just we just finished the book of john, I just discipled him through the book of john.

And now we're going through Romans. And it Wow. It's just, I mean, I get chills to think about it, because it's the power of the spirit.

And something as simple as Bitcoin, we can use because of the truths behind it. And think about the Bitcoin adoption curve. I mean, if we're if we've only got one to 2% of global adoption of Bitcoin right now, if we could use Bitcoin as an evangelistic tool, which, which I'm also writing some new stuff about that, think about how many people we can reach in a new way, in this post Christian world, and now we can talk to them with fresh, a fresh lens of truth that they've never seen before.

And I'm super excited about it. I'm excited to just hear it, man. That's it doesn't get it's Yeah, I literally have goosebumps.

I mean, it's exciting that God, yeah, I mean, my podcast, the for the king podcast, it's just, he's the king overall, but and it's, it's very evident in what you're saying. And I appreciate your brother. Okay, so I guess to wrap it up.

Can you can you tell people how to like, because some people might be very, very new to this, like, how do you even purchase Bitcoin, just to get into the space. And obviously, that'll inform a church if the pastors listen to this, and want to talk about it at their elder their next elder meeting, how would you purchase Bitcoin, what are the avenues you would say are best and how do you hold it use? You know, I use a virtual wall, I like next to an IO because I get you get yields on that. What do you think is good in terms of wallets? And then, you know, just finish it up with that.

There's if there's one just real big thing you want Christians to take away from this conversation? What would that be about Bitcoin? Yeah, well, the one the absolute one thing I would say about Bitcoin is brothers and sisters, if you're not into Bitcoin, you need to, for your own financial sanity and security. And this is just a technology that if you've never looked at it before, you should take a look at it. And if you've looked at it, dismissed it, you should take another look at it.

And just, you know, I don't, I don't make anything if you buy Bitcoin, I want you to be wealthy, because the system that we're in is going to collapse. So I'm, I'm Noah saying we're drowning in this fiat system. So please save yourself.

So that that would be, if there's one thing I want to say, it's that as far as, you know, what are the best wallets, how to purchase Bitcoin and all that I've actually got a quick start guide that I give at the end of the Bitcoin for churches seminar. So I'm happy to make that available, either to you, Rocky, and you can send it out to your listeners, or if they want to email me, I can I can send it out. I'm happy to do that.

I can give you my email address. But I think that probably for someone who's never purchased Bitcoin, they're kind of interested in what I'm saying, probably swan Bitcoin is what I'd recommend. And if you don't mind, I've got a referral link and and you'll get free Bitcoin and I get a percentage of the commission fee, but it doesn't affect your price at all.

But the reason I like swan is because there's no sell button that the you can sell it, but they make it deliberately difficult to minimize panic selling. So you can set up an account, link it to your bank account and have an automatic withdrawal come in every, you know, day, every week, whatever. And if the price drops, there's no there's no easy way to sell it.

I mean, you can always contact customer support and try to sell it. But I forget their statistics. But I think over 98% of the people that sign up with swan just never sell their Bitcoin.

And because they've got just a real and I've made plenty of mistakes of selling Bitcoin when I shouldn't have because I panicked before I really understood it. So swan Bitcoin.com is probably the easiest. And as far as wallets are concerned.

So what Rocky's talking about is, you know how to store your your Bitcoin, I think probably one of the easiest wallets to use is blue wallet just from a user interface. It's very slick on the phone. And you can you can use it on Bitcoin and the Lightning Network.

So that's probably the one I would typically recommend as a first step. But there are many others, but that's probably the one I would recommend first blue wallet. And yeah, and then if there are church leaders out there that want to talk about this with their congregation or talk to me more, you can actually go to my medium 67 Corvette on medium and I actually have a short breakdown of Bitcoin for churches, I actually have a over 300 page manual that I've based the presentation on.

And if you want to kind of get an idea of what that looks like, you can see kind of a short blub of that on medium. Yeah, that's awesome. And that was the last thing I wanted you to end with is plug your platforms and stuff and you've done that.

And send me like, yeah, just the referral code to that swan wallet that you use. Yeah, just send me all that and that way we can make that available to the listeners and stuff. But if there's one last thing I would have to say is guys, please go support this guy.

Go support Patrick. He's a brother in Christ and he's doing something that is useful in the kingdom of God. Every believer has their own gifts and what Patrick seems to be gifted in and what God is using him for right now is talking about Bitcoin and revealing the evils.

There's different watchmen that are looking in different parts of the world where evil is happening and Patrick's doing that with the evil monetary system we're in now. And he's a Christian voice in basically a very idolatrous space because there's so many people that talk about Bitcoin in religious terms and it's idolatry. It's literally like a religion.

There's dogma, there's leaders, there's all this stuff that a religion has, there's a belief in the metaphysical, all that. And Patrick is preaching the gospel to Bitcoiners. So guys, please go support this guy.

We got to support our brothers and sisters in Christ when they're doing something that they're passionate about and they're using their gifts, we have to support them. So let's get more reviews, more likes on the iTunes, Apple Podcast for him and what he's doing and what's supporting this guy. Thanks, man.

Yeah, no problem. And Rocky, in the quick start guide, there's actually also a way you can get free Bitcoin. You don't have to know anything.

You can just download an app called the Fold app and you can earn free Bitcoin. So that'll be in this quick start guide as well. Oh, perfect.

Yeah, that's awesome. And now is the time to do it because probably the next two months, Bitcoin's probably going to go parabolic. So yeah, exactly.

We're going to get into the halving cycle, right? So it's about to, something's about to happen. Well, actually, the halving occurred last year. But if you look at the price predictions and the modeling, and you can do this differently than you can do stocks because it's all based in math and code and all that.

Yeah, some are predicting that Bitcoin, this is not financial advice, I'm not a financial advisor, but most are predicting that Bitcoin will get up to over 98,000 at the end of this month and probably 125,000 by the end of December. But those are predictions and none of us are profits. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I've been hearing too. Obviously, do your own research and all that, but I've been hearing definitely bullish news.

And just look at the news of the adoption. There's so much money. There's a lot of institutional money starting to come in with the new Bitcoin futures ETF.

There's institutional money coming. The price is just going to go up. Okay.

So I'm going to end with a few scriptures. So what we were talking about earlier, James chapter two, verse 14, "What good is it my brothers, if someone says he has faith, but does not have works, can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says them, go in peace, be warm and fill without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?" And Bitcoin can solve an issue like that, like he was walking through earlier in El Salvador. And then in Proverbs 13, 11, "Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase." This is wisdom.

This is eternal wisdom from God. And Bitcoin's not a just, yes, it's volatile, but you sit and you wait for value. And it's not a get rich quick Ponzi scheme.

You walk through that in your Bitcoin for churches, 300 page sheet you have, but it's not a Ponzi scheme folks. Okay. It's a, there's, there's real world value here based on more like, like righteous morals that has real world value, because it's a technology that can do a lot of things for a lot of people.

So it's not fake. And it's not just because it's code doesn't mean it's fake. It has real world impact.

It's a real thing. And it's not wealth gained hastily that will dwindle. You gain wealth hastily, usually that ends up in ruin, but Bitcoin's not like that.

Bitcoin's a different kind of thing. It's not a Ponzi scheme. It's not a get rich quick thing.

It's a hold on to it. You know, this, this is going to be worth something one day, you know, anything. That's awesome.

No, you did great. I was just thinking one more thing I wanted to plug is we're trying to model the same thing that was done in El Salvador at Bitcoin beach in Guatemala, where I've spent many years with my family in Panhachell, Guatemala, a project called Bitcoin Lake. So if you want to get involved in that, I'll also give Rocky the links for that.

And we would love everybody's support. And if you want to send teams down to Panhachell, it's a beautiful little town and help with Bitcoin adoption on there. That'd be fantastic.

Awesome. Okay, well, I always end these podcasts with a doxology. So first Timothy one verse 17 to the king of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God be honor and glory forever and ever.

Amen. Solely day. Oh, Gloria.

Amen. [inaudible]