Unconditional Election (TULIP part 2)

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Unconditional Election (TULIP part 2)

March 15, 2021

"At the very announcement of the text some will be ready to say, 'Why preach upon so profound a doctrine as election?' I answer, because it is in God’s word, and whatever is in the Word of God is to be preached."

"I believe the doctrine of election, because I am quite certain that, if God had not chosen me, I should never have chosen Him; and I am sure He chose me before I was born, or else He never would have chosen me afterwards; and He must have elected me for reasons unknown to me, for I never could find in myself why He should have looked upon me with special love. So I am forced to accept that great Biblical doctrine."

"Whatever may be said about the doctrine of election, it is written in the Word of God as with an iron pen, and there is no getting rid of it. To me, it is one of the sweetest and most blessed truths in the whole of revelation, and those who are afraid of it are so because they do not understand it. If they could but know that the Lord had chosen them, it would make their hearts dance for joy."

- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

My guest joining me this week on the Sunday series is my brother Bryce. Bryce is getting his undergraduate degree in philosophy and hopes to get his MDiv. from a seminary after he completes his undergrad. He hopes to be a pastor shepherding Gods people one day.

Sources: Matthew Henry's Commentary, Westminster Confession of Faith 9 & 10

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-we-believe-about-the-five-points-of-calvinism#Depravity

Further Reading: Chosen by God by R.C Sproul

https://faculty.wts.edu/posts/limited-atonement/ -> really great article please read

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/unconditional-election/

https://www.ligonier.org/blog/tulip-and-reformed-theology-unconditional-election/

https://www.ligonier.org/blog/charles-spurgeon-calvinism-unconditional-election/

https://www.biblesprout.com/articles/church/weaknesses-calvinism/ -> Argument against limited atonement

https://www.gotquestions.org/arguments-against-limited-atonement.html

https://mountcarmelapologetics.com/2020/12/14/against-limited-atonement/

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/8409/what-is-the-biblical-argument-against-limited-atonement -> this thread is good

Inquiries to forthekingpodcast@gmail.com

Sunday Series Episode #6

Website still coming soon. Sorry I have a lot of school right now :/

Transcript

[music]

[music] Hello for the King Listeners! It's your boy, Rock! We're going to talk this week about unconditional election. This is our Tulip series on Sunday that I'm going to release. First I'm going to be doing this preface to each one of the points with a few brothers of Christ in my church, my pastor, one of them, Mr. Nate Mies, and then Trent.

Is that her hammer? How do I say it? Trent. What's your last name? Richard. Oh! Hammer wasn't even close.

I thought it was, yeah. Sounds cool though. Trent, I like that.

I think I had a buddy in college that had Trent something hammer, so sorry about that. I've just never had a chance to actually hear your last name. Then I can use the hammer time.

Go ahead and turn to the music now. Let's just real quick give an introduction to unconditional election. Well, unconditional election, again, one of the things that we have to consider, right, is each one of these points, as you've been talking about it, as there was a historical background, I guess this would be last week from a podcast perspective, was the reality that these are growing up from scripture.

These are theological categories that derive from the biblical text itself. There's also a sense in which they just jive theologically, right? It's a systematic way of approaching these truths, these doctrines. Well, in total gravity is a biblical truth, which we think that it is, right, because scripture clearly teaches that we are totally depraved.

We are sinners both by nature and by choice. Adam is our first father, and as the federal head of all mankind, we are all in him with the exception of Jesus alone. Therefore, we are depraved by nature and by choice.

We receive both the imputed guilt and the polluted nature from our father Adam. If that's true, and again, we do believe that it is because it's a biblical teaching, then there is the next category that comes to the front, right, is, okay, if we're all totally depraved, how is it that anyone is saved? Well, here's where unconditional election comes in, and here's where the biblical teaching of God's sovereign choosing of a people unto himself, and the Son's sovereign work on behalf of the people, and the Spirit's application of the Son's finished work on behalf of the people, come into play. So, unconditional election is the teaching that in the mind of God, in eternity past, we can use temporal categories to describe a temporal realities.

The father chose a people in the Son, and the Spirit determined to apply the finished work of the Son to that particular people. And the doctrine emphasizes that that is true, not conditioned upon anything in mankind, but solely alone based off of the good pleasures of God itself. So, our election, because election is just a biblical word, right, we can't get around it, it's a doctrine that's there, it's a biblical word itself, election is unconditional, meaning we were elected in Christ, before the foundations of the world, not conditioned upon anything in us, and that is distinct from what's typically referred to as conditional election, meaning that our being chosen in the Son was conditioned upon God, viewing all mankind throughout eternity, and seeing those who would respond to his offer of grace, his offer of salvation in the Son, they would respond favorably, and that's the condition upon which they're elected in the Son, and that actually diminishes the sovereignty of God.

That one is foolishness. There is a level of foolishness to it. I mean, one of the things, I mean, we just want to be kind, right, Armenian brothers and sisters and those who would hold to more of a conditional election.

I don't think that there are, there aren't passages in Scripture that one can point to and say, "This clearly teaches a condition," and now there are conditions in the covenants, right? Yes, yeah. But there's no passage that one can point to to argue for a conditional election. They can't be understood differently, and I would argue maybe more appropriately in the context of the passage being discussed.

So, yeah, and also one thing I like to use is Romans 8, 28, 30, I think, that whole progression of God's foreknowledge, those who be foreknew, he predestined. So if he foreknows everybody's faith, then logically that text is teaching that everybody's saved, and that's by no means the truth whatsoever. And that's always, that text is just, it's too plainly saying that there's only a select, unconditioned few.

And then we went to, we went to Deuteronomy 6, too, like, "He loves you because he loves you. He didn't choose you because you are more than the other peoples of the earth. He loves you because he loves you." Well, in Romans 8, too, the poor knowledge there is less emphasizing God's knowing intellectually beforehand, but knowing affectionately beforehand.

So if we look at how knowing is used consistently throughout the Scriptures, there's a sense that knowledge is an intimate kind of knowledge, not just an intellectual, cold kind of knowledge. And especially when you look at the New Testament in particular, you look at how that particular word is used in relationship to individuals, right? It's not used predominantly in God knows actions, but God knows people. So there's this unique usage of the word in the New Testament itself.

So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's, I mean, at its most basic level of conditional election, teaches that we were elected in the sun, not because of anything God saw in us, not because of anything good in us, but solely because of his desire to glorify his name and according to his good pleasure. Adhesians chapter one would say these all owe up according to his good pleasure and owing to his glory. So, yeah, God, again, absolving all cause for us to boast in and of ourselves.

Yeah. All right. Trent Richards, Richard Richards.

Oh, man. All right. You have Trent Hammer.

It's right. Anything to add? Oh, yeah, I would just say that it's this, this idea of unconditional election. And I think, you know, across all evangelical circles, there's the understanding of, the understanding of salvation by grace through faith.

You know, you've got got people on both sides that are going to affirm that. And I think really where the rub of why unconditional election seems so offensive again, because biblically, as you were saying, Rocky, gives it gives us no way to boast. The idea of unconditional election is implying that you yourself, not in no autonomous way, chose God, but God chose you.

It doesn't mean, I will say it doesn't mean that there isn't a, that you have not made any sort of volitional, like, I'm determined, I'm going to repent and by faith follow the Lord. But it roots that not in something that you have done or something innate in you or any condition by which the Lord either sees or has foreseen that, that brings that about. And I think it's just, it rubs against our Western sensibilities of, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, the American dream, the self-made aspect.

And, you know, and we, especially like post-enlightenment and in our modern world, we really value autonomy. And it's sometimes difficult then for us to receive biblical teaching and biblical doctrine that goes, it pushes back very strongly against that sensibility. That, you know, we do make choices, we do have a will, and these things matter, but they are not ultimate.

And that's really where, you know, emphasizing the sovereignty of God comes into play. And again, it gives us no reason to boast. It humbles us as creatures under the lordship and sovereignty of a creator, where most of our, you know, some of the things that are infiltrating modern day evangelicalism is like language of you need to let God do this.

You need to, and we don't let God do anything. If he is truly sovereign, if he is God, then, you know, nobody can stay his hand or say to him, "Why have you done this?" And so it's just, it's a hard doctrine and a lot of people wrestle with it. I know I had to wrestle with it to come to grips with it, but it is a freeing and beautiful doctrine.

And we understand that, you know, we have no reason to boast, but how great and how gracious and kind is our God, that looking on our sinful estate, not like, "Oh, I'm choosing you because I see something good in you," but rather, "I don't see anything good within you whatsoever." But in spite of that, I will set my affection on you and redeem you. We have no, there's nothing other than praise and doxology that can come from a gospel like that. Amen.

In that description too, right, I may be very careful to think that we are actually the chief expression of God's glory, right? Actually, the fact that we were chosen and the Son brings the Son ultimate glory. And Jesus is going to be praised and extolled forever and ever and ever. And we, I do think that at least within Reformed circles, we do have to understand unconditional election as not a means by which God is glorifying Himself merely in the salvation of sinners, but God is glorifying Himself in the Son because the Son is going to be the one to redeem those sinners.

Jesus will receive all praise, honor and glory forever and ever and ever, for He alone is the Lamb who is slain over the nine nations of the world. He alone is the one who is redeemed to people by His blood. So even in all of this, Jesus receives the glory that He's due because of the work that He's accomplished.

And then you point into the reality that it does tend to rub us the wrong way, right? This is not a conditional election. The fact of the matter is there's a subset or sub-area of study within the doctrine of election. And I don't know if you guys would address this or not, but superlapsarianism versus imperlapsarianism.

So in the mind of God, does this occur before the ball or after the ball? And at least historically speaking, those have been two predominant answers with imperlapsarianism being one that maybe holds a little bit more credence just in number, right? You know, when you think about professionally reformed documents and even the reformed writers and post-reformation writers. But nonetheless, I mean, this is God electing, you know, according to His grace and according to His good pleasure, out of sinful humanity, right? No. There's nothing good in any of us that God sees and says, "Yeah, I'm choosing Him and not Him." Her or not her.

I mean, this is in light of all of sinful humanity being totally depraved because of our union with Adam and the fact that we are again, sinners by nature and by choice. God is saying, "I'm going to put my affection upon you, not because of anything good in you and not because you're better than your neighbor, you're both, you're wicked." Right? But so that I might receive honor, praise and glory for the work of my son and the application of the work of my son by the Spirit. I mean, those are the types of things that we praise God for because it's not anything in us that God sees or His work towards us is not conditioned, but rather it's unconditional.

And it displays His sovereign good pleasure and it displays Him as being the supremely satisfying and beautiful one in the universe, right? The fact that we were once dead in our sins and trespasses, but God made us alive together with His grace. By grace, we have been saved as an Ephesian shepherd to reality. So we give praise to God for His unconditional election because the fact that matter is, if it was conditioned, we all be in hell.

Because total depravity is a genuinely good category. Yeah. They logically all flow, all five points.

Watch the photo together. The other builds on the other. Yep.

Okay. That was perfect, guys. Thank you so much, brothers.

Thanks for coming on. And you guys are about to hear Bryce and I talk some more about this.

[MUSIC] This is an adventure into the word of God.

Wow. That was a nice new one. Thank you.

I think I'm going to start having fun with those intros instead of just doing the, "Hey, everybody, this is Rocky with the For the King podcast." You know, I wanted to make it different. Do you, so, I mean, you just got engaged not too long ago. So is that how you sweet talk, Candice? That's how I asked, "Will you marry me?" Wow.

And that's why she said no, right? At the first time? Yeah. And then I went to my normal-- She said, "Don't say it like that." My normal man voice. Don't say it like that.

Yeah. I ruined the moment, but then I brought it back. Yeah.

You did good, right? Nope. I'm totally depraved. So why don't you buzz off, dude? I'm trying to be faithful to the word of God.

That's fair. So we're going to go there right now. We're also going to be faithful.

I like the word of God. I'd like to go there. What are we talking about today? So today is our second installment of the Tulip series, part two.

And part two is going to encompass the nature of God's election and calling of the individuals. I don't like that word! I know, dude. He elects me.

I thought I had a free will. I thought I could do stuff. I thought I was-- We're not robots, though, guys.

Here we go. We're going to say you can still be elected and be forced to be a Christian and follow Jesus or face the wrath that will ensue and not be a stupid little robot. Yeah.

Okay. So let's get into that. So last week we-- And we are saying this tongue in cheek, if you realize that, guys.

Yeah, we're just trying to be goofy. We'll get more serious in a second. I like to start off a little goofy and then settle into it.

Yeah. Makes me feel comfy and warm. Yeah.

Okay. So last week, total depravity. We established we are totally depraved.

And the Arminian counterpart to that of partial depravity is false. We are not just partially depraved, but we are totally depraved. And every faculty of the mind unable to reason or to get ourself to God apart from His grace.

Now, they still have--Arminians still have a way to think about the pervenient grace that ensues, but it's still us choosing God of something in us rather than God opening our eyes to the truth. That's the difference. So what is warranted, if we are totally depraved, unable to get ourselves to God, then what has to happen? We have to be elected.

Right. Now, that spark, that partial depravity for the Arminian is--the logical conclusion of that is that we're not unconditionally elected, but we're conditionally elected based on if that spark that God gives us of His pervenient grace would work as God looks out into the future of His perfect foreknowledge of the future. Right.

So God looks out in the perfect foreknowledge and sees whether a certain individual, given the divine spark of the Holy Spirit, would end up placing their faith in Christ or not. And we're going to try to make a case that this is an error. This is an error.

It's not correct. This is not what Scripture teaches. So if we're totally depraved, then what is warranted is that we are unconditionally, not on any condition, not for any reason, not for anything in and of ourselves, but elected and chosen for salvation to basically undo the total deprivation of our souls and the sin that has ensued, to undo that.

Okay. Right. Does that make sense? Is that a good precursor? Do you have anything to add? I know it's decent.

Decent. Okay. What can I have done better? It's all going in afterwards.

Okay. Afterwards. Yeah.

All right. Okay. So we're going to stay.

Again, guys, we can go all throughout Scripture for this stuff. We're going to stay in some of the most explicit texts because they're the ones that are the most obvious for this teaching. So we're going to do Romans.

We, you know, Romans one through three really talks about the depravity of man. And then what's warranted as he continues his argument throughout Romans, we get to chapter eight and nine, which talk about the election of individuals, which is the reason these are talked about in the same books is we're going to go to Ephesians two, which is also where we established total depravity. Last week was an Ephesians.

The reason why these books have both total depravity teaching and unconditional election together is because they are logically necessary. This is the way God has to work for saving individuals if we really are totally depraved like God tells us we are. And then he keys us into what must be.

We must be chosen by him and literally brought back to life. Right. Yeah.

So that's why these are coupled together in Scripture, which is it's actually a beautiful thing, guys. Yeah. So we're going to stay in both Romans and Ephesians.

Unless you have a few other texts you want to. Yeah, there's I might bring up a couple of them. Yeah.

Yeah. Good. So let's let's first let's go to Romans.

We'll find our foundation of that. Actually, well, I had two little quotes I wanted to read real quick. So these are all by Charles Spurgeon, who was the last great Puritan in the 18th century.

They stretched to the 20th century. No, it was the. Yeah, it was the early 19th century.

Sorry, 19th century. Yeah. And over in Great Britain.

It's funny. They also said that about Martin Lloyd Jones. So who the heck is the actual last great Puritan? I don't know.

One or the other. One of those two guys. OK, this is what Charles Spurgeon says.

At the very announcement of the text, some will be ready to say why preach upon so profound a doctrine as election. I answer because it is in the God's word and whatever is in the word of God is to be preached. So we need to be hearing this on sermons on if you have a text that talks about it, you better be sure to talk about that.

God chooses some and not others. You better talk about that. And there's a lot of pulpits that will not talk about that because they think it's wrong or it's they want to think about it some other way.

And it's right there in the text. What? What? Nothing. It is right there, isn't it? Yeah, you're right.

OK. What? I just have a twitch of my eye. I thought you were.

I know you were. Well, I was just I was looking at it because you were like blinking and twitching a lot. Are you done with that? Quit discriminating.

I just can't focus if you're going to be doing that. All right. So this is also what Spurgeon says.

I believe the doctrine of election because I am quite certain that if God had not chosen me, I should never have chosen him. And I'm sure he chose me before I was born or else he would never. Sorry, he never would have chosen me afterwards.

And he must have elected me for reasons unknown to me for I never could find in myself why he should have looked upon me with a special love. So I'm forced to accept that great biblical doctrine. Last one.

Whatever may be said about the doctrine of election, it is written in the word of God as with an iron pin. And there is no getting rid of it. To me, it is one of the sweetest and most blessed truths in the whole revelation.

And those who are afraid of it are so because they do not understand it. If they could but know that the Lord had chosen them, they would make their hearts dance for joy. Guys, God's chosen us.

That's honestly crazy. And it's, and again, the Arminian says it's conditional. It's because of something I did.

And what I'm forced to say is it's actually unconditional. It's because of nothing I did. Nothing that I did caused God Almighty, the creator of the universe, the creator of my stupid little body and my beating heart.

There's nothing in me that would make him want to choose me. It doesn't make any sense. If you're chosen in him, guys, go worship God.

Like if you're chosen, you best be giving glory to God because it's nothing you did. It's just his goodness. Absolutely.

Okay. Let's get into the text now. Do you want to read Ephesians first or Romans 8? You go.

Well, actually let's finish on Romans because it's just so good. I'm going to go to Ephesians first, then we'll do a couple of those and then we'll finish on Romans 8. Okay. So in Ephesians, so after he makes his case of election, he actually then goes into total depravity.

So we're going to actually back up to chapter one this week. Okay. I'll just start in verse three because then in verse four, that's where he gets into it.

But verse three warrants why it's a blessing. This is what a blessing is, guys. Our culture hijacks that word.

Hashtag blessed. I got a cool car. Hashtag blessed.

No, it's not what a blessing is. Get real. Verse three, blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.

What are those? Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, before the world had ever been made, he has chosen us. Now what does that mean? That we should be holy and blameless before him. Who's holy and blameless before him? The people that are saved, total depravity.

It's not the people that could resist the grace that are chosen and foreknown before the foundation of the world. And don't get that backwards. You're not holy and blameless and God has chosen you.

You're holy and blameless out of God's choosing of you. So he doesn't choose you based upon your being holy and blameless. Yeah, exactly.

So as I read this text, guys, real quick, this is what the Arminian says, that God, based on his conditional election, looks out into all possible worlds and all futures where you could have been born. And if you in those possible futures have chosen faith in Christ, chosen to believe in God and to put your faith in Christ, then God chooses you in this world. So because of some condition met in some future world where you would have, if this other world in God's mind would have been made true, you would have placed your faith in Christ and been holy and blameless, right? You are justified by grace through faith.

If you have faith, if God looks out and sees that you had faith, then guess what? You were holy and blameless before God chose you. The Arminian flips it, says, you were chosen because you had faith and were holy and blameless in Christ. That's why God chose you.

Because you would have believed anyways. Not true at all. Okay.

So you guys see the text that we should be holy and blameless before him. You guys see that difference there? So as we read these texts, keep in mind that framework, either we're unconditionally elected, God chooses us based on nothing in and of ourselves, or God looks into the future and chooses us because of some faith he foreknew in us. And guys, just really think about how logically consistent that is with these words that we're about to read to you guys that are plain in scripture.

It's very plain. Right. Okay, here we go.

This isn't some higher-word doctrine that you can't understand. You guys can get this. This is right there in the text.

It's not like you need to finagle your way away from what the Bible says. We're literally just reading it. And it's actually a glorious truth.

That's why Charles Spurgeon talked about it so highly. It's like, this is freeing to know. Okay, so continue on in verse five.

"In love, he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will." According to his will, not according to our will of our faith we placed in Christ in a future world. Right, conditional election. Wrong.

"To the praise of his glorious grace with which he has blessed us in the beloved." Verse seven. "In him we have redemption through his blood and the forgiveness of our trespasses according to the riches of his grace which he lavished upon us in all wisdom." There it is, folks, wisdom, in God's wisdom. That's where it comes from.

"In all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." All right, okay. And then we get verses 11 through 14 talks about how, "In him," I'll just read verse 13, "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believe in him were sealed with the Holy Spirit." So, God, it's a divine act by the Holy Spirit. It's a gift from God to believe in him, to be sealed for righteousness, not something in the future of you in your own volition believing and having faith.

Yeah, and that just reminded me of a key text. And notice, guys, adoption, when you're adopted, you don't... I know there's like that pithy statement out there when you're adopting a kid, "Oh, they chose me." Yeah. But when you think about adoption, you have the complete optional will to choose the child or not.

So, when we're talking about adoption, here's what John says in John chapter 1, and he says, "But to all who did receive him who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." Okay, so they believed in him. So, is the belief... What is the foundation of it? Well, let's find out. Verse 13, "Who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of God..." Nope, that's not what it says, "nor of the will of man..." But of God.

But of God. God's will. Is the foundation of election, right? The foundation of adoption.

Yep. So, we're brought into a beautiful family, not by us. We were rebel children.

Yeah. God adopted us and brought us into his family by his will, even in spite of us. In spite of our futility of mind, unwise living, no fear of the Lord, no faith, godlessness, hatred of God, in spite of us.

And go read Hosea. Yeah. And this is a perfect image of God's election because God has a prophet, Mary a prostitute, who keeps whoring after other men.

And the whole purpose of that is he says, "This is how Israel treats me." God has been faithful to his people and they continuously be faithless. And that's the point of election, right? It's in spite of who we are. Cool.

Awesome. So let's go on to... Wait, wait, actually, let's do Deuteronomy real quick because that's the state of us being adopted in the family of God as Gentiles, but the Jews were the family of God. They really weren't.

They were also adopted because God chose Abraham out of a pagan nation. They are not like his... They're not God's special family. God just chose them and adopted them again.

And that holds. But also, I think Deuteronomy 7 is really important. "For you are a people holy to the Lord your God." This is verse 6. "The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

It was not because you were more in number than the other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fused of all people. But it was because the Lord loves you in this keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers." So why does he love you? Why did he choose you? He chose you because he loves you. He loves you because he loves you.

I'll say it again. He loves you just because he loves you. If you're chosen and you actually have your mind open to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Lord himself, God incarnate coming to earth, dying for the sins of humanity, living a perfect life, dying, being buried, and resurrecting in victory over sin and death, bringing the kingdom of God and the good news to his people, if you believe that, he loves you because he loves you.

So if you're a Christian, listen to this podcast. That's good news. And it's nothing you did.

Yeah, I just want to reiterate that. Also what's that text in John where Jesus keeps saying, "I chose you." I think when he says, "I chose you, disciples." I was just thinking about that while we were bringing it up. There's multiple texts all throughout the Gospels where Jesus is like, "I chose you guys." John 15.6 says, "You do not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit." Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. John 15.6. Yeah, exactly. And it's just like, guys just really think about like- John 15.16. John 15.16. Yes.

Sorry. Yeah. That's the "I'm in the branch, you're in the branch." Yeah, it's right after that section.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. So really just think about the whole story of God.

He chooses Abraham, one person out of all the plenitude on the earth, he chooses one guy, chooses him. Then he chooses his son and chooses all of them after that. Then he chooses Israel.

So like if in the Old Testament we see very clearly that God is choosing one person to make a covenant with and save and not anyone else in all the earth, then why do we have trouble in the New Testament thinking God's saving humans through Jesus and not just a promise of faith saved through promise that Jesus would come? It's still Jesus that was saving the saints of the Old Testament, but I'm saying if he did it in the Old Testament so clearly, why do we have any trouble thinking that God, that's not how God operates now in this new covenant in Christ? It really doesn't make sense guys. We talk all the time about how Israel's God's chosen nation. If he chooses nations, if he chooses Abraham, if he chooses individuals and nations, then why would we not think he chooses us as his people if he's chosen his people all throughout the past? And even like in the full revelation of the New Testament, we see that even in the Old Testament, it wasn't necessarily about an ethnic group.

It was about God's purpose of election through the promise. So not all of Israel were Israel. Not all who are called Israel are actually God's chosen people.

There's always an individual basis and God brings that into his kingdom. So there's many Israelites who were never saved. That's why when Elijah is praying in a cave, he says, "Lord, they've all abandoned you." And what does the Lord say back to Elijah? "There are still 7,000 that I have kept for myself." So it's always God's purpose of election.

They're not going to fall away. There has to be the 7,000. God just promised it.

All who are in the Father's hands, he will never let go. So did they have free will? We're going to finish up with that too after we get to Romans, really talks about free will. And I'll read the Westminster Catechism again and we'll go through that and then we'll talk about the justice of God.

And just as a small caveat, there's different kinds of wills. Yeah, permissive will, decorative will. And humans.

Oh, and humans. Oh, and not God's will. Yeah, and humans.

Right. But we'll get into that. And then we'll read Romans 8. Yeah, you do that part.

All right. So Romans 8 says this. I'm going to read verse 28 in it because it's a-- Oh wait.

Sorry, can I back up real quick? Yeah. The whole point of reading that Deuteronomy verse, by the way, is to show that it wasn't conditional. He loved them because he loved them.

Yeah. So when I brought up the Old Testament, how it deals with choosing an election, it was not based on a condition. He said it wasn't because you were more people of all the earth.

It wasn't because of this or that. It was just because I loved you. I loved you because I loved you.

Right. So I just wanted to-- Yeah, great point. This is all unconditional.

Unconditional. Based upon-- Nothing. Only God.

God, his faithfulness, his covenant. Yeah. Who he chooses.

Who he loves. Exactly. Sorry.

I forgot to clarify that that's why I brought that up, that it's unconditional because we're trying to make a case for unconditional election. Yeah. Yeah, great point.

All right. So Romans 8 verses 28 through 30. I'm going to read 28 because, guys, this is a common verse, but it's not what you think it means, what most people think verse 28 means.

But it says, "And we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose." Now here's how all things work together. For good. "For those whom he foreknew being God, he being God, for those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son in order that he might be the first-born among the many brothers.

And those who be predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Now, going back to Rocky's discussion about foreknowledge, it says foreknown here. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined. So what the Arminians going to take the route C, clearly you guys are misunderstanding foreknowledge.

It says right here, "Those who be foreknew, those people he saw, he looked into the future, and he saw their faith, and he elected them, he chose them because of their faith. For those who be foreknew, he did predestinate." See? Foreknowledge is before the predestination. Now here's where there's a big error.

So when we read the Bible, we must take the lens of our culture off of our eyes. The way we understand the word foreknowledge is not the way the Bible uses the word foreknowledge. So we have different passages.

Here's all the passages where God is foreknowing somebody, and I'm going to explain it. So later on in Romans 11-2 it says, "God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew." So he's talking about his people. Not everybody, his people.

And then it says in 1 Peter 1.20 talking about his own son being the Lord Jesus Christ, it says, "For he," referring to God the Son, "For he was foreknown before the foundation of the world." So this is clearly talking about the foreknowledge onto specific individuals, and it has nothing to do with anything intrinsic to them. So the way that the Arminian would understand it is they would say the foreknowledge is based upon the faith. No, no, no.

God foreknows people, he foreknows who they are in his predestination. So God has worked all things according to the counsel of his will. So God, before the foundation of the world, like it says in Ephesians 1, predestined people.

He chose them, and it's not based upon anything. So we can't just read that and say, "Oh, it says foreknowledge, therefore this is talking about something intrinsic to the human." No, it's talking entirely upon God. And one more just note about how the Arminian thinks about this.

They're saying that the way God's foreknowledge works is that he foreknows all possible events and all possible faiths, all people that could come to know him. And if they do, if they choose that in the possible world that he thinks of, then he foreknows that Arminian is saying God foreknows all people. Now all the times that it's used in Scripture, those who he foreknew are only the ones that he predestined to be conformed to the image of his son.

So if God foreknows all people, then what this text is teaching for the Arminian is that all people are conformed to the image of his son. And guess what that is? That's universalism, that's everyone saved, that's biblical inaccuracy. What the word foreknown is talking about is knowing somebody in Scripture is being intimately connected and loving them with a special love.

That's why all throughout Scripture a man goes in and knows his wife. It's a special love that you have for a certain kind of people that you have a certain kind of affection for. He is not saying by any means those who he foreknew of whose faith they would have, those are the ones he predestined.

Yet the way that the... We're saying the word foreknew is talking about a special intimate connection with, which is he doesn't foreknow everybody. But what the Arminian says is that he does foreknow everybody and that he predestines the ones that have faith. But if it says that those whom he foreknew he predestined, then there's a logical contradiction there because if he foreknows everybody, then everybody is predestined to be conformed to the image of his son and have faith in Christ, which we know is blatantly false.

And that's why we have to keep reading. We can't just settle on that verse because Paul goes into greater detail when I say it like that. Detail.

You're trying to sound smart. Yeah. That's usually how good it is.

But in chapter nine, he explains more thoroughly what this means. And the big key text for unconditional election is in Romans nine verse 11. And this is referring to Rebecca's children, Rebecca and Isaac's children, Jacob and Esau.

And it says this, "Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls, she was told the older will serve the younger as it is written, Jacob I loved and Esau I hated." And then he goes straight on and talking about, he's assuming what they're going to object to. Yeah, just read the rest of it. He says in verse 14, "What shall we say then? Is there any injustice on God's part?" I mean, that's an honest question.

And Paul says, "By no means for he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who has mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up that I might show my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whom he wills and he hardens whom he wills. So here's the basic teaching.

Paul is expanding on this doctrine of election that he's clearly painting in chapter 8 into chapter 9. He's talking about, and this is not a nation. There's some people who think this is some people who... They think this is talking about Israel now. It's talking about individuals.

Jacob is Israel, but you cannot say... Pharaoh's an individual. Pharaoh's an individual and Israel is a person. Jacob is Israel.

That's what you got his name changed to Israel. So we're not talking about nations here. We're talking about people.

The Armenian does conflate it to nations. Exactly. And that's how people mostly... Try to get rid of it.

Because Romans 9 is the dreaded passage. They don't know how to do it. So they just say, "Oh, it's just talking about Israel." What they do essentially is they come to a very clear understanding and they take it.

They're taking you to a river and instead of actually looking in the clear crystal water, they take you straight to the bank and they start muddling up the water with the mud. That's essentially what they're doing when they read it like that. This is individuals before Jacob or Esau did anything either good or bad in order that God's purpose of election might continue.

Jacob, I love that Esau, I hate it. Those are two people. So we need to understand this.

Paul is clearly talking about an unconditional election based on God's will, not human's will, based upon nothing the human did. Not for nations, but for individual people. So that's why we get the context of foreknowledge is on... He doesn't foreknow everybody.

He knows in an intimate, unique way his people whom he has predestined and adopted into his family. So guys, go read Romans 8 and 9. Read those passages, understand what it's saying. And we can't look at this and charge God for error.

If God didn't choose us, if God didn't choose people, we would be destined for hell. And it's not that God just came and got a bundle of cats and threw them into the water and left them out to dry. We all chose this path.

We're not neutral. We suppress God's truth and unrighteousness day by day. That's the whole purpose of total depravity.

We choose evil. We choose the path away from God. It's not that God is presenting himself.

We choose it. And you say, "Yeah, I want that." Sorry, I was going to get you wrong. Yeah, I want that.

You always turn your back. And that's why everybody makes an excuse day by day when you look up into the heavens, you look up into the sky, and God is clearly seen and you say, "There's no God." There's no God. In fact, you're called a fool.

Fool says in his heart, "There's no God." That's Psalm 53. That's before he in 14. Yeah.

Yep. Okay, so then that was really good, Bryce. Good exposition.

Yeah, it's pretty clear in the text. So the last thing I want to get to to help you guys, some people charge God with injustice because of the doctrine of elections. This is what he says next in verse 19.

"You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault, for who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? What does molded say to its molder? Why have you made me like this? Has the potter no right over the clay to make out of the same lump? One vessel for honorable use, one person to be saved, to come to faith, and another for dishonorable use, somebody to be reprobate, somebody to not be chosen by God, to just be destined for hell forever, someone like Judas." In Jesus' high priestly prayer in John 17, he says, "Not one has been lost. I've prayed for my disciples. I've prayed for those that love me.

Not one has been lost except two, the son of destruction. Judas was predestined before the foundation of the world to go to hell." Now, how does that work? Yeah. Well, would you have something to add on it? Because I want to keep going.

I was going to explain that with active and passive election. Sure. Yeah, go for it.

If you're going to do that, you can. Yeah, you can talk about that. So that sounds... Predestination is double.

And the double, you can say, it's either double active, double passive, or active and passive. And I'll explain that. Yeah.

And in R.C. Sproul's book, his chapter is called Double Trouble. Double Trouble is predestination. Double Trouble, or sorry, double, double, toil, and trouble is predestination double.

That's funny in line. It is double. So when we look at predestination, God is actively predestining one person, and he passively predestines another.

So here's what we mean by this. So we are all, by birth, sons of destruction. He takes from these sons of destruction, and he adopts them into his family.

So he's not creating in somebody fresh, evil day by day to cause them to reject him. Yeah. It's their own evil.

They actively, and this is guys why we keep saying there's no neutral ground. Every single person actively suppresses God's truth and unrighteousness. Guess what? He doesn't make you do that.

That's why God's election is so beautiful, and we must have it, because if God didn't choose us, we will never and would never choose him. Right? So he actively is taking some out of the dirt. He does the work.

He does the work. It's active on his part. Right.

And when we say passive, God plays no role in the human not coming to him. He just, he lets the human do whatever the human would do by nature. And what do humans do by nature? Now in the fall, we just sin.

There's none who does good, no, not one. Our free will, we are freely able to do whatever evil thing we want to do. But we can only do evil because it's impossible to please God without faith.

So that's how it works. He passively just allows humans to do whatever they would do at any moment, and it's always evil. He actively comes and does, he doesn't create fresh evil.

He creates fresh good in humans. He does do that. That's right.

Because God is good. That's why he is good. He cannot do evil.

And what is that good that he is creating in us? It's granting us his Holy Spirit that we would be made alive. Exactly. God saves the sinner while we were still sinners, right? That's the whole point.

He's taking from the sinner and we are still sinners, but we're sinners saved by grace. Exactly. And he's transforming us into his image.

Yep. And also concerning the justice of God, God is perfectly just to send every single one of us to hell. When he allows somebody to continue in their sin and he chooses not to save some, let's say for instance, the Amazonian in the jungle, in the deep Amazon, he has done that Amazonian no injustice.

They are the ones that committed the evil. God is perfectly just to send them to hell. It's actually more than fair that he saved some.

He has no obligation to save any. We should all go to hell. The fact that he saves any is a miracle.

So we have three categories. God, you either get justice or grace. You never, ever.

There is no human in the existence of all humans that have lived that have ever received injustice from God. You either get justice for your sin, rightly do you, or you get grace. That's it.

That's the beauty of election. In our culture right now, everybody is crying out for justice. Everybody wants justice.

We do not want God's justice. We really want grace. We really want mercy.

Exactly. Because we cannot deal with our guilt. We cannot deal with our sin.

The only person who can do that is Jesus Christ on the cross suffering instead. Exactly. Yep.

Going all the way to episode one. Yep, exactly. The propitiatory work of Christ.

That's right. All right. So I'm going to read a few more things for the Westminster Confession of Faith because it's so good.

And then we'll wrap up and that'll be the end. So I'm going to read chapter nine, article four again. I read it last week, but I'm going to read it again.

When God converts a sinner and translates him into the state of grace, God does it unconditionally. He freeth him from his natural bondage, undersen, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will to do that which is spiritually good. Yet so as that by reasoning of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly nor only will that which is good, but doth only also will that which is evil.

And then article five, the will of man is made perfectly and immediately free to do good alone in the state of glory in heaven only. And this is a, this is the chapter 10. There's four articles.

I'll probably just read the first one just because it, it, it just says it concisely and it's good. All those whom God has predestined unto life and those only he is pleased and in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call by his word and spirit out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ, enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone and giving them a heart of flesh, renewing their wills and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ. So as they, they come most freely being made willing by his grace, we come freely.

We are called and we'll talk about this more for irresistible grace. You don't come kicking and screaming. We'll cover that.

It seems like God's forcing us to do something that we, we want to do sin and God forces us to do good. And it's like, well, still he's forcing himself upon us. Isn't that wrong? Um, by no means.

We'll cover that irresistible grace. Then I'll read article two. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything that is foreseen in man who is altogether passive therein until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit.

He is thereby enabled to answer this call and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it. It's irresistible grace. We'll get into that.

And then I'll do four because this talks about those not elected, others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the word and may not have some common operations of the spirit. Yet they never truly come to Christ and therefore cannot be saved, much less can men not profess in the Christian religion be saved in any other way whatsoever. Be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature in the law of that religion, they do confess and to assert and maintain that, that they may is without warrant of the word of God.

Just by hearing, faith comes through hearing, hearing through the word of Christ. It's a supernatural act of God taking out a heart of stone and putting it in a heart of flesh. God calls us unconditionally, not conditionally.

Logically inconsistent to think that God would choose us based on any good that he's seen in us in the future. If he looked in the future, he'd see nothing but evil. And last two notes.

First off guys, Psalm 18 says for those who are not called and loved by God, these things seem treacherous. We get that. We get that some of these things do not seem right.

And if you have questions, please, we would both love to talk to you. So reach out to Rocky. If you really have questions, we will set up a Zoom call and we can call off with you guys.

Yeah, I would love that. So please don't just say, what an evil wicked God and just run off. Please guys, we don't want that.

We don't want this from the podcast. So please hang in there with us. Please give us the benefit of the doubt.

No doubt we might say some things wrong sometimes, but give us the benefit of the doubt. And number two, for those of you who are Christians, recognize that we cannot abuse God's election and say, therefore we do not evangelize. Oh yes.

God abuses. Yes. We go read Romans 10.

The word. The means by which God is going to bring about salvation is by the word of God. Now faith comes through hearing, Romans chapter 10, and hearing through the word of God.

No doubt proclaim the gospel. Indeed, you're commanded to in Matthew 28. So don't use this as an excuse to not shed a gospel.

You must. Yeah. And if you don't, you're in sin.

You're a fool. Yeah. If you don't, you're a fool.

Good. That's a good place to end it. Yeah.

Please, if you want to do a Zoom meeting or whatever, whatever you, if there's something you guys disagreed with or however you want to engage with this, just you can reach me at forthekingpodcast@gmail.com. I am in the works of a website. I hope to get that up and running here soon. That way you guys can interact there on a blog or just so you can get to learn more about me.

And I think my website will be helpful to the podcast. So I hope to do that at some point. As always, we would love to have a, like, to get a domain that doesn't say WordPress.whatever.com. It costs money.

So if you guys feel so inclined to support this podcast financially, that would be really helpful. We would really appreciate it. We could definitely do a lot more if we had more funds.

So thanks so much for listening, guys. We love you. To God alone be the glory.

Jesus is king. This is the For the King podcast with your brother in Christ, Rocky and my brother Bryce. So we deal Gloria.

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