Perseverance of the Saints (TULIP part 5)

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Perseverance of the Saints (TULIP part 5)

April 4, 2021

Will the saints finally persevere? Can you fall away from your faith? Are you your own keeper? Listen to the biblical answer to such questions this week on the For The King podcast! Thanks for listening!

My guest joining me this week on the Sunday series is my brother Bryce. Bryce is getting his undergraduate degree in philosophy and hopes to get his MDiv. from a seminary after he completes his undergrad. He hopes to be a pastor shepherding Gods people one day.

“He who falls, falls by his own will; and he who stands, stands by God's will.”

― Augustine of Hippo, The Gift Of Perseverance

Texts:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2, John 10:26-29, 1 John 2:19, Matthew 13:26-30, Hebrews‬ ‭3:12-14, ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:31, ‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13, ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:3-6, ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬, Hebrews‬ ‭12:2‬, ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:7-8, 10-12, 15-17, ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬, ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:1-2, ‭‭John‬ ‭10:26-29‬, ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14, Romans‬ ‭8:29-30‬, ‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:3-4‬, Luke‬ ‭22:31-32, ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:33‬, John‬ ‭17:12, 15, 17, 20

Resources: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-we-believe-about-the-five-points-of-calvinism#Perseverance

Inquires: forthekingpodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

(music) Happy Easter! Wow. Happy... We made it. We've been doing this for like two months now, Bryce.

This is awesome. We have faithfully done every Sunday, but we had to this week kind of catch up a little bit since last week. We were actually not together and were able to film one.

So that's why this one is going to be released a little later today on Sunday. But it is Easter Sunday and we celebrate Jesus coming back from the dead. That is literally everything to us.

If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then we believed in vain and we should be pitied by the world. We should be pitied. We should be made fun of.

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, we should be counted foolish and cut off and made fun of. So happy Easter everybody. But you know, although this is a unique holiday where we uniquely remember Jesus' resurrection, every single Sunday we celebrate that.

And that literally is our... Jesus is our rock and our cornerstone. Every day we celebrate it. He's our foundation every single day.

Every hour. Every hour. Every minute.

A millisecond. Quantum. Second.

Second. Is that a thing? I don't know. Also, I want to just celebrate that this podcast for the King podcast, ladies and gentlemen, is reaching the nations.

We are... the oceans are not an obstacle. Neither is the vast amount of mileage between us humans. We are reaching young men and women in India, Australia, Canada.

It might be... I could keep going. I could keep going if we reached more countries. But that's it.

Canada, Australia, India. Wow. Guess how many states? Let me just hit you real quick.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine states. What in the world is the gospel going through the ends of the earth? Sure seems like it. Technology is just an awesome medium to use to transport information really quickly.

So I just wanted to celebrate you guys with that. Thanks so much for sharing it. I don't know how it's being found because I don't do any marketing or I don't have any social media.

I literally don't. So it's either you guys sharing it, which I really appreciate, and for you listeners that are tuning in from other countries. Thanks.

Appreciate it. I hope it's encouraging that there's random people in America that do love God and think critically about what it means to be humans on this earth, even in America where we're so privileged and there's so many things we know of. If you guys are brothers and sisters in some of these other countries, we know that it's harder to be Christians in these countries.

Canada right now is locking up ministers that do not comply with COVID regulation. She actually just got released. Did he get released? Okay cool.

I know Australia may be not as much persecution, but whoever is listening from India, I know that that can be very tough, that there is persecution that happens in India. So remain faithful brother or sister. Shoot me an email or something and we'd love to pray for you if you're in a situation like that.

But yeah, we're just really encouraged to see you guys tuning in so we can get into what we wanted to talk about now. I just wanted to highlight that. I think it's really cool.

Actually I was really overjoyed to see the nations. Okay, so we are wrapping up, unfortunately. The end.

It's the end, not of the podcast, but of the series we're doing, which is the Tulip series, which is an acronym that is displaying some theological truths that we can get from Scripture that comes out of the Reformation from Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries. And ultimately from Paul. Yeah, it goes.

Jesus. And Jesus is teaching. Exactly.

It's reforming what had been kind of marred throughout the years of the church. So we're wrapping that up. Bryce and I love the Reformed tradition and we think it is absolutely biblical and it does.

It stretches all the way back to what Jesus taught. And we're just trying to be biblical and know who Jesus is and how we ought to worship him and think theologically about, you know, this whole series was about soteriology. How are we saved? How does God save us? So I encourage you guys, if you're tuning in for the first time, go back and listen to the other parts that we did on the Tulip series.

And we hope that that's easy to understand, easy to follow. It's probably about two hours worth of listening to get through, to catch up to where we are now. But going back and looking through those really do enlighten kind of a way to think about how Jesus is saving us, how God saves us.

So really encourage you guys to do that. We hope that this was at least interesting to go through and to walk through. And if you guys already know, this is probably just a good refresher or a good reminder.

So yeah, we're going to wrap that up today with Perseverance of the Saints. So the last episode was about irresistible grace, about how God, when he calls us to himself, it happens effectually. We cannot resist the call of God in our lives to follow him.

And, you know, this whole Tulip series is, again, it's a logical cascading waterfall, all kind of leading from one to the other. So total depravity is kind of like what leads into all what must be necessary for totally depraved leads into all the other ones. And this last one this week is Perseverance of the Saints.

So let's define that really quickly. Did I miss anything, Bryce, on the intro? No. Great.

Didn't you have something you wanted to say? Do you have something that you wanted to say? No, just forget it. All right. So the definition, yeah, just remain silent.

Are they silent? I think they're pretty, they're bleeding. And they're, that's from Isaiah 53. Jesus is like the sheep before the shears.

You're being used before Pilate. You didn't say a word. I know it's very hard to come on this podcast.

That's why you remain silent. All right. So let's define Perseverance of the Saints.

That is the theological understanding from the scriptures that the saints, which are people that God saves, saints, the root word there is something like sanctify. I think sanctus is the root word there. I don't know exactly.

I'm sure it's Latin, but it just means holy or set apart something like that. Saints, people, humans that are saved by God and set apart first kingdom. And they're of God and they will truly persevere or remain steadfast.

They won't fall away permanently in their belief and faith until the end of their lives. They will not finish the race. They're going to finish the race.

Yeah. A hundred percent. And then the counterpart that the Arminian or other faith traditions would say that you can fall away.

You will not necessarily persevere. You might, but it's not a guarantee from our holy father. Right.

You can begin and stumble in the midst of the race and be put out. Yeah. Of the kingdom of God.

Of the kingdom of God. Yeah. Okay.

So that's, that's how we're going to define this and work with it. I mean, there's always more nuance to this, but this is just our working definition for this episode. So, um, a song that we want to start off the podcast with, just listen to these words, because they're going to be, they're going to inform the rest of the podcast.

So this is Psalm 37 verses 28 through 29. And then verses 39 through 40 for the Lord loves justice. He will not forsake his saints.

They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off. The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever. That's also where Jesus gets the meek, Sean, here at the earth, that kind of thing.

And then, uh, verses 39 through 40, that same chapter in Psalm 37, the salvation of the righteous is from the Lord. He is their stronghold in the time of trouble. The Lord helps them and delivers them.

He delivers them from the wicked and saves them because they take refuge in him. Right. That's what the saints do.

Exactly. That is what the righteous do. And that goes straight back to the doctrine of justification by faith alone, right? Because they take refuge in him because they trust in him, put their faith in him.

Um, has nothing to do with them being righteous in and of themselves, but everything to do with God being their refuge and being their salvation. Exactly. And that's exactly what the doctrine is called.

It's perseverance of the saints. And it clearly says right there, verses 28 and 29, um, that he will not forsake his saints and they are preserved or persevere. They, uh, they're preserved forever.

Um, so that's pretty clear right there. They are preserved, his saints, those people who are born again, brought into the kingdom of God, sanctified, set apart from the profane, um, and United to the Lord Jesus Christ. Yeah.

And the question is, can you be a saint for some time? Right. Or if you're a saint, are you always a saint? It seems like this is teaching. If you're a saint at one point, God will never forsake you.

Yeah. He will not forsake his saints. So the Arminian or the counterpart to this doctrine that the reformers kind of consolidated in the, in the reformation, but you know, stretches all the way back to what Jesus was teaching.

Cause we'll go, we're going to go through some of the things Jesus says that pretty clearly teaches that he does not lose track of a sheep. You cannot fall away. If you're a saint, if you're a sheep and saying are going to be interchangeable words, the sheep are those that are in the kingdom of God.

The goats aren't the saints are in the kingdom of God and the heathens aren't. So yeah. So we're going to be answering that question and interacting with that question.

Cause that really is what this whole doctrine kind of entails. Can you be a saint for some time or if you are saying, are you always a saint? Is it, does it work like that in the Bible? So do you want to do the Contra or the pro first? I do the pro. Okay.

So we are going to do all of the pro scriptures for perseverance of the saints, all the scriptures that we think point clearly that the saints are persevering all throughout history. They've always done it. And then we're going to go to the Contra view, the view against the perseverance of the saints that one might read and think, Oh, well actually can the saints fall away? Can you be a saint for some time and then fall away and not be a saint anymore and go back into the realm of Satan basically and sin.

Okay, cool. So let's see. I wrote the affirmative position.

Here we have positive texts that God does keep us from falling away. So I have Hebrews 12, two, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him and during the cross despised the same and to see it at the right hand and throne of God. Jesus is the author.

He pins the whole story of our faith and he perfects it. He perfects our faith. That does not seem like a, uh, if he's not, if he perfects our faith, that means he brings it into completion.

And then Philippians one six is a good verse that goes along with this. He who began a good work in you will be bringing it to completion on the day of Christ. Right.

Okay. So then now I'm going to read some stuff out of Hebrews 12. It is for, well, sorry, later on in that, in that same chapter, it is for discipline that you have, you have to endure.

God is treating the sons for what son is there whom his father does not discipline. If you are left without discipline in which you have all participated, then you are legitimate children and not sons. And then verses 10 through 12, for they disciplined us for a short time as it seems best for them are our earthly fathers, but he disciplines us for our good that we may share his holiness for the moment.

All this one seemed all this one seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained via it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees. And then 15 through 17, see to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God, that no one falls away, that no root of bitterness springs up and causes trouble and by it, many become defiled, that no one is sexually immoral or unholy.

Like Esau who sold his birth right for a single meal, for you know that afterward when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected for he found no chance to repent though he sought it with tears. And then I'm going to go into another verse real quick and then we're going to exegete that, we're going to exposit it real quick. Second Timothy 2, 24 through 26, and the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach patiently and during evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.

And then right here guys, this is the crucial part. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will. So the key part there is, yes we repent and we turn away from God, but remember what we were talking about all throughout the rest of the series that the way God does it is it's all through his spirit working in you.

You can't do it. You're totally depraved in and of yourself. So if you want to repent, you have to be chosen.

It's impossible to repent if God doesn't make you alive to do it in the first place. That's why the language that Paul uses to Timothy says he may grant them repentance. It has to be granted to you.

It's something that's given. It is something you do. It's an act of your own will.

But remember your will is bound to evil, which is not repenting, but remaining in your sin until God comes and makes you alive in Christ through the Holy Spirit. And then you can repent. Make sense? Yeah, did I miss anything? No.

So yeah, those Hebrew, we're going to go back to Hebrews later on when we, most of the warnings about falling away come out of Hebrews. So we're going to go back there later on when we get done with all the verses four. But, you know, God is disciplining his sons, just like a father would discipline his sons for what reason that later it would yield peaceful fruits of righteousness for those that have been trained by it.

So he says, therefore, because remember, God is going to discipline you that you're going to strengthen your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees. So what is being taught there that if you're a son of God, the Lord will not let you basically get away. He's not going to let you get off the hook.

He's going to discipline you. If you're living in sin as a son of God, he's going to discipline you. And he's going to, he's going to basically beat that out of you that you won't fall away forever, that you would have fruits of righteousness.

Because then right after that, he says, see to it that nobody gets this root of bitterness in them and fails to obtain the grace of God. And how do you see to that by using God's discipline, because then he talks about Esau that he was so hardened in his heart that he tried to repent. He sought repentance, but he found no chance to do it.

He was rejected. So he sought it with tears. He wanted to repent.

So just because, I mean, we do have many verses about come and knock and it will be open to you, but there's also an element of it needs to be granted to you as well to come at all. That makes sense. There are people that come, Esau, for instance, sought it to repent with tears.

He wanted it so bad, but why couldn't he repent? Truly. Because he hadn't been chosen and God hadn't worked in him in that way and disciplined him as a son. Yeah.

Hadn't been granted to him. Yeah. And ultimately, like he had no grievance over his real sin.

He just wanted to have the blessings that was then given to Jacob. So. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was in the pride of his own heart that he despised the Lord and in his tears he desired what was not his.

Yeah. So it was actually envy and pride that was hardening his heart even further. Exactly.

All right. Let's move on. We got to get through this.

This is, we're already almost 20 minutes in. First Corinthians 15, one through two. Now I would remind you brothers of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and which you stand and by which you are being saved.

If you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in name. So we have a category here of quote unquote Christians that we see in church with us that actually aren't with us. They are, you know, think about Judas going out with the disciples, the whole ministry, the whole, the whole time Jesus was doing ministry for three years.

Judas went with them, but he was not, he was not with them. He went out with them, but he was not with them. There are, you know, we got to think about the parable of the sower.

There are seeds that are sowed that spring up for a second, but then they're choked up by the world. They are sowed in vain. So there are some Christians all throughout history and even like, you know, presently still in the church, this is, this is a thing that happens in every church, everywhere, that there are some that are actually believing in vain and they, they want, you know, the blessing rather than God himself, kind of like Esau or something like that.

Sound good? All right. John 10, 20, 16, 29, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and give them eternal life and they will never perish.

And no one will snatch them out of my hand. My father who has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of my hand, out of the father's hand. So that's like one of the clearer texts we can go to.

Remember the sheep are the saints. The sheep are those that are in the kingdom of God and they hear Jesus's voice and nobody can snatch them out of Jesus's hands. That's what he says.

And notice it says in verse 28, he gives them eternal life and they will never perish. Yeah. Right.

So this is clearly talking about salvation. Salvation has been granted to them, right? This is through the order of salvation that we've been following so far. Now we're at the end of it, perseverance of the saints.

He's granted them everlasting life and he will hold them and endure them until the very end. Just like a loving father will. He takes care of his children and he will not let us falter.

He will not let us stumble. So that's a very beautiful and present reality for all of us day by day that we can constantly look forward to. We cannot sin and cause any sort of separation from God because he holds us by his gracious power and his gracious will.

Exactly. Yeah. An argument I like to use a lot against people that come against perseverance of the saints that you can follow away, that Christians aren't secure.

You're not going to persevere. You could possibly fall away, but let's hope you persevere. If you can somehow make a case, biblically, that people can fall away, then Jesus is not a very good shepherd.

If there are people that can be sheeped for some time and then somehow get out of the sheep pen that Jesus is the gate and the master of, then Jesus is not a very good shepherd at all. But here he says, "I am a good shepherd. No one was asked about my hand.

I'm the good shepherd." Right. And that's the teaching we're supposed to get from Jesus leaving the 99 to gather the one. It wasn't a goat that ended up turning into a sheep or sheep that's turning into a goat.

It's a sheep. That's going out to live like goats. That's going out to live where he's not supposed to and God gathers him back.

Right? So it's the Lord holding us. Exactly. And that's going all the way back to at the beginning reading from Psalm 37.

We take refuge in God because he is our salvation. It's not us. So because we know that we did, we were totally depraved, unable to reach the things of God, unable to attain salvation through our workings, completely unable to.

God completely and unconditionally elected us. For salvation as children. He adopted us into his family.

Christ died for his sheep like we've already proved. And he's drawn us to himself and he will hold us to the very end. Exactly.

And if you do think you can fall away from your faith and God will not persevere you, then you are relying on your grip of Christ and not his grip of you. In Philippians chapter 2 or 3, I think he says, "I press on ahead because Christ has already taken ahold of me." It's God who's taken ahold of us first. It's not, you know, think of a little kid with their mother or father walking down the street next to a busy road.

If the child gets ran over by a car, whose fault is it? Is it because the child didn't grasp and hold tight to mommy or daddy's hand? Or is it because the parent was negligent in how hard they were holding on? Who's at fault there? So if you do, you know, fall away and you thought you were a Christian, then you actually never believed in the first place. And it's God's grip on you that was the deciding factor, not your grip on him. That's what we get with the parable of the sower.

There's only one seed that is sown that leads to eternal life and it's that which is sown in the good soil. There's seed that's sown on the rocks. It springs up for a small time.

Yet it's choked up by the rocks. Or actually, that's the thorns. It's, what is it? It's burnt up, I think is what it is.

And it's scorched by the heat. It's on the rocks and there's no moisture to hold the root. Yeah, exactly.

And then there's one that's on the path where it gets trampled underfoot. And this one that gets choked out. And then this one that's on the good soil.

Right. Yeah. So we can analyze, we know... The one that actually takes root, that's who we're talking about, the category we're talking about, is the one that actually sprouts, but then it gets choked out by the other thorns.

Right. Yeah. And that's Jesus is teaching too, that you know the tree by its fruit.

Exactly. Right. So this is the way that we get to analyze and see whether a person is persevering.

Exactly. Yeah. Oh, wow.

I totally... Yeah, I forgot to read these. I'll read them after we get done. Well, actually, no, no, it's time to talk about it right now, just because of what we brought up.

In Matthew 13, 20, 60, 30. Well, okay, sorry. First, I'm going to do 1 John 2, 19, because it's quick.

They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that it might be complained that they are all not of us. So there's some that come out with you, but they're not with you.

They're not brothers and sisters in Christ, although they may claim to be, you know. And then Matthew 13, 20, 60, 30. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also, and the servants of the master of the house came to him and said, "Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?" He said to them, "An enemy has done this." So the servant said to him, "Then do you want us to go and gather them?" But he said, "No, lest in gathering the weeds, you root up the wheat along with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the harvest time I would tell the reapers, gather the weeds first and bind them in the bundles to be burned, but gather the weeds into my barn." So just off of everything we were just talking about there, with the sheep and, you know, a go, and you're either one or the other, but sometimes it's hard to tell. Sometimes there are, obviously there's sheep living out in the world that still have yet to believe in Christ, but they will be called eventually. They're the elect.

And then there are goats that are in, they're not in the pen, but they're in the pasture with the sheep, right? Like out in the world, in church, right? So there is a category for that all throughout the scriptures, that there are people that are with you, with the Christians. Judas is a great example, like I brought up earlier. They're with you.

They're together. They say the same things you say, do similar things, but they actually have no root. That's lasting.

Okay, last couple more verses real quick. Ephesians 1, 13 through 14. "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him were sealed with the promise of Holy Spirit.

It was the guarantee of our inheritance until we require possession of it to the praise of his glory. You're sealed with the Holy Spirit. You cannot fall away.

You will persevere. A seal is a permanent mark on something of ownership, like the seal of the King, you know, ownership. Like it can't be undone." Anything else there? That's true.

That's good. Okay. And then Romans 8, 29 through 30, which we brought up the last couple of times, like this is just a great verse for it.

"For those who before knew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers, and those whom he predestined, he also called, and those whom he called, he also justified, and those whom he justified, he also glorified." So if you're called, you will be justified. If you're a sheep for some amount of time, and you've truly been called, you will be glorified. You will make it to the end.

Yeah. And then it being Good Friday, or sorry, it being Easter Sunday, let's talk about Good Friday a little bit since it's all together. So on the night before Jesus is, I guess this happened.

Yeah, this happened Maudy Thursday, my bad. In Luke 22, 3 through 4, it says, "Then Satan entered into Judas, called Iscariot, who was the number of the twelve. He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray Jesus to them." And then Luke 22, 31 through 32, about 30 verses later, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail, and when you have turned against, strengthen your brothers." And then Matthew 26, 33, "Peter answered him, though they all fall away because of you, I will never fall away." You know, Jesus says, like, they're going to be scattered.

Because the shepherd is taken away, the sheep will be scattered. And that's a verse that Jesus was, scripture, he was fulfilling when the shepherd, Jesus, is taken away, the sheep scatter, all the apostles scatter. Peter denies Jesus, they all basically go away from Christ.

They're not with him to the end. He falls away. Peter falls away for a time.

But what is the difference between Judas and Peter? There's only one difference. Jesus prayed for Peter and not Judas. That's the only difference.

Every single one of us would have betrayed Jesus, would have been lost in our sin, would have done the same things Adolf Hitler did, would have in Nazi Germany, would have went right along with everything. Apart from the restraining power of the Holy Spirit, you can end up just as evil as any other human has been evil in the past. You're not special.

The only thing that keeps you from doing any heinous evil things is the Holy Spirit, the restraining work of the Holy Spirit in the world. So Peter and Judas, you could flip-flop them so easy. If Jesus would have prayed for Judas instead, then Peter would have been the one to betray him.

It's not anything special about, again, unconditional election, it's not anything special about Peter that he was chosen, it's just Jesus prayed for him. He just chose him because he loves him. He just wanted him.

So I just want to highlight that. And then again, back to the high priestly prayer real quick. John 17 verse 12, 15, 17, and 20.

"While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction that the scripture might be fulfilled." So why did Judas, the son of destruction, fall away? Because he was not guarded by Jesus. "I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one." Why are we kept? Why do we persevere? Because Jesus prays for us right here.

Sanctify them in your truth, your word is truth. Why are we sanctified? Why are we made holy? Because Jesus prayed for us. "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word." That's me and Bryce.

That's you guys listening. We can trace a line of faith all the way back to the apostles that went out after Jesus gave them the Great Commission, all the way to us. Because of the word of mouth by the proclamation of the gospel.

So what's the difference between us that are Christians that are listening to the podcast and anyone else that doesn't believe? The difference is Jesus prayed for us. God has chosen us. That's the only difference.

Now why did he do that? It's not because of anything inherent in us. You could switch Judas and Peter easily. It's nothing special in an oven.

Okay, so hopefully we've made a good biblical case for why the saints will persevere. And there's more text you can go to. We're just, if we did more text, then we'd go hours and hours on this.

Those are some of the big ones. Hopefully that was encouraging to you guys. Let's real quick talk about some conundrums we find in the scriptures that go against maybe what we're going to say.

Do you have anything to add Bryce? I haven't said anything. No, that's good. Okay.

You're not as talkative today. Am I just doing a really good job? Yeah. Or do you disagree with the kind of stuff I'm angering you know, as we sit here and you're like, I can't stand the way he's presenting this.

Really? Stop me, please. If you think there's a better way to say something. Okay.

Conundrum. So the warnings in scripture, there are warnings in the scripture that we may fall away. How do we, how do they show a universal persevering of Christians rather than what they clearly teach that some Christians can fall away? It's very clear.

Some of these texts that you can fall away. And then the answer is some that are with you are not of you all the time. And we talked about some of those scriptures earlier about the weeds and the wheat, but here are some verses that would be tough for people that don't have a exegetical understanding of the scriptures have a full encompassing.

We, we just went through about 20 verses that have a positive, affirmative statement about that you, about being kept in Christ, that you can't fall away. Nobody can snatch you. You will make it to the end.

We just had like 20 affirmative texts that literally say you will be kept to the end. Now these texts that we're about to read that some people say show that you can fall away from the faith. They are warnings.

There's actually no positive, affirmative statement that you will fall away if you're a Christian. It just says what would happen if you fell away. So the difference between these texts we're about to read and the contrary position to perseverance of the saints is that all of their supporting texts are an if there's no affirmative statements, you will fall away.

And for our end of the theological debate that the saints will persevere, all of our texts are positive that you will persevere. And I think that's very telling that the, what the warnings are meant to do here that we're about to read are to call you to repentance. And those that are truly believing sheep and saints of God will read these warnings of what would happen if you were to fall away and you will do what? What do true saints do? They always repent and they always come back to Christ.

They're never finally cut off. Right. Yeah.

And that doctrine too separates the one who endures and the one who doesn't. It helps those who are believers to have an explanation for those who appear to fall away. Even though there's warning texts here, we also have other texts that do affirm that there were some who were of us, but they were not, they were among us, but they were not of us.

And clearly what's being gotten out there is that there is a separation between those who have actually been called and persevere and those who have the appearance of being in the body of Christ, but they fall away in a way that is not solvithic. It's more of them just being cut off from this physical appearance of being a part of the body of Christ. Yep.

Exactly. We have categories for these things. It shouldn't come, it shouldn't make us doubt God's faithfulness to us.

Okay. Here we go. Hebrews 3, 12 through 14.

Take care brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God, but exhort one another every day, as long as it is called today, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ. If indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

So what happens if you don't hold your original confidence firm to the end, you have not come to share in Christ. That's what he's saying here. It's a warning that, uh-oh, if you're not, if you have an evil, unbelieving heart to you, leading you to fall away from the living God, you need to do what? Exhort one another every day and exhort or exhortation just means to basically encourage, strengthen, build up.

So what are we supposed to do for each other when we have evil and believing hearts? We need to exhort one another, encourage, bring each other back, right? Anything else there? That's really all that's saying. Yeah. I mean, even Jude says save some by snatching them out of the fire.

If you see your brother, yeah, exactly. In fire, you need to be exhorting him to live a Godly life until the life worthy of the gospel. And we got to remember sometimes God works through his people to keep them from falling away finally.

It's not like, yes, it is the Holy Spirit, obviously, but sometimes the way the Holy Spirit can work in congregations and in his church, right? Is through brothers and sisters in Christ encouraging one another that then the spirit basically kind of acts on in those moments, you know? Is that accurate, Bryce? Yeah. So Matthew 26 31, then Jesus said to them, you will all fall away because of me this night for it is written. I will strike the shepherd and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.

So they strike the shepherd, they take Jesus away to be crucified. And then all the sheep scatter, all of them, even Judas. Now, all of them come back besides Judas.

And we've already went through earlier what the difference between them is. Satan was allowed to enter Judas and Satan wanted to sift Peter like wheat, but Satan was not allowed to enter Peter because of why Jesus prayed for him. And actually at that time when Jesus said that Judas wasn't even present.

So he wasn't even really coupled in with that. So all the people he said that to came back and they did persevere. Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. So here's the thing. Can you fall away for a time? Yes.

True believers can live in sin, unrepentant for a time, but you will always come back. And that usage of fall away is not losing your salvation. It's not you lose it on time and you will come back and gain it back again.

That's just meaning there's this fall away from God. Exactly. Exactly.

You're losing that sense of fellowship, Quran day on the face of God in the scriptures, right? And you're living that, like you said, unrepentant, exactly. Self-righteous life. Those people will like Esau, but wait, like Esau.

When he saw things with tears and oh yeah, for a time being, but it's different for us than with Esau. Exactly. Yes.

That when we do seek repentance, like Esau did after we fall away for a time, we, God will restore that relationship with us and he will work effectively. His grace in our lives. That's the good news.

You know, and if you have to persevere, if it's all on you guys, like that's just a tough theological belief from the Bible. If persevering is up to you and not to God, then that's just, this is tough because again, we know that we're totally depraved. So if it's up to us, what will we do every time guys? You know, we're going to fall away.

If, if persevering was up to us and not God, we would never persevere, which is what the opposition, oppositional statement says that persevering, you might persevere, you might not. It's up to you. It's not up to God, which makes no sense.

Biblically, Luke eight 13 and the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy, but these have no root. They believe it for a while and in time of testing, fall away. I think we tried to say the thorns earlier.

Yeah. We were talking about both of them, the rocks and the thorns. Yeah.

Sorry. So yeah. And in time of testing, they fall away.

They have no root. You know, what does root mean? Life. They have no life in them.

Yeah. They appear to have life. The weeds weeds appear to have life, but they choke and they bring nothing but death.

Good. Yeah. He was four three through six for we who have believed enter that rest.

As he has said, as I swore in my wrath, they shall not enter my rest. Although his works were finished from the foundation of the world, for he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way. And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.

And again, in this passage, he said, they shall not enter my rest since therefore it remains for some to enter it. And those who formerly received the good news failed to enter it because of disobedience. What do we learn there that if you disobey, sorry, if you have a hard heart and you disobey that God will keep good things from you that you would have had otherwise from God.

It doesn't mean that you will fall away. Finally, if you live in disobedience, God will still save you. You can't be snatched out of his hands.

It's just, if you are living in disobedience, you may not be blessed in the same way you would have otherwise in terms of a close communion with God, feeling close to God, being sanctified from your sin, that kind of thing. But you won't be cut off finally. Does that make sense, Bryce? Yeah.

Anything to add on that? Even at the same time, we still have to recognize first John, I think it's either 228 or 328, 29. But all those who are born of God will live that righteous life. And at the very same time, we have to affirm that if somebody's living in constant unrepentant disobedience, we have to recognize that that is a person who has landed on the rocks.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's hard to tell.

They will repent eventually. If they don't ever, at the end of their lives, then yeah, you might have a conversation and be like, Hey, you have shown no remorse for your sin. Like, you know, that leads me to believe something about what the scriptures say about what the saints do.

But yeah, the Israelites, they failed to enter that rest because of their disobedience in the wilderness. That's why God did not give that generation to see the promised land. Now, were they all, I bet some of them were legit unbelievers.

They didn't know God, but some of them truly probably didn't know God, but that whole generation was living in disobedience. And they could have seen the promise land if they would have just, but listen to God. Make sense? Yep.

All right. Last one, Hebrews 6, 4 through 6, for it is impossible in the case of those who have been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the son of God to their own harm and holding him up to content. You want to handle that one? Bryce is too hard for me.

Yeah, I think this is, I mean, again, this is just referencing to a person who has been in communion with the saints. They've tasted and heard and seen the gospel of Christ, but it's never been something that impacted their lives clearly because they're never restored to repentance. They've crucified again the son of God to themselves.

So they, it actually says later on, they'd trample under the son of God. They trample under his blood because while they recognize the beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ, they're not receiving it for themselves. It's honestly, even though Easter Sunday is a very beautiful thing, it's also one of the most sad things because this is the second time a year somebody comes.

They either come on Easter or they come on Christmas. And for those people, they are blaspheming God by not actually adoring and treasuring his name and thinking that it's just something important enough to go to only once a year. That goes back to what you're saying at the beginning that Christ, we celebrate that, his resurrection day by day, hour by hour, or quantum second by quantum second.

So this person who isn't, it's impossible to restore them again to a place of repentance is a person who is self-righteously living within the culture, thinking themselves a part of the body of Christ and not recognizing their own sin. They've fallen away. They cannot be restored because they still think they're okay, but they don't need to go to church.

They don't need to worship every Sunday with the brothers. They don't need to disciple like Jesus called them to. They don't need to live a repentant life.

What's with all that theology? I don't need any theology. I just need Jesus, but I just need him twice a year. So that's the person who tramples under the foot of the son of God.

If that's you, that's very scary stuff. And you need to really be thinking about the life you're living and if you are living in true repentance or if you're actually not forsaking and confessing your sin. So that's what I would say about that verse.

That's the person who is in communion with the saints, but nonetheless, they're not actually a part of the body. That's first John all over again. Even though they were among us, they were not of us.

Yeah. I saved this one for last because this is the toughest one for me. The language that's used, it seems like somebody that's a true believer.

They've truly believed the line I take on this verse because it says they're enlightened. They've tasted the heaven, the gift they've shared in the Holy Spirit. It seems like they've been baptized by the Spirit.

That's a Christian. They've tasted the word of God, the powers of the days to come. And then if they fall away, the line I take is at the beginning.

It says it is impossible to restore them to repentance. Basically, this is a very somber warning to Christians because if it were even possible for you to fall away as a Christian, you would never be able to repent ever again because you've tasted in all these things. You know who God is.

I don't think this can happen. I think this is impossible. Yeah.

That's why I think he leads off by saying it's impossible. Yeah. I think the sharing of the Holy Spirit is referencing to that communion.

It doesn't say they have the Spirit. It says they share in the Spirit. So I think that there's something a little different going on there, but nonetheless, it still doesn't, either of our positions don't allow for perseverance of the saints to be wrong.

Yeah. I mean, this is what you have one kind of hard text among, we just, we could rattle off 50 more about how God keeps his saints. They don't pass away.

They don't fall away. So God is, can't mean that as a refugee. It can't mean that.

Some Armenians think that type. Exactly. This is the only text they really have.

I think that would even give any credence to what they're trying to say. And he literally starts off with saying it's impossible. Like I think what he's getting at is this situation will never come to pass.

A saint will never fall away. And if they, if they even were, if it even were possible, they would never be able to be restored again to repentance. I would kind of put that kind of like how the angels don't have a chance to repent.

The elect angels, if they were to fall, which some did, they weren't elect though, but some did fall. They had no chance to repent again because they tasted in the powers of God, the Holy Spirit, God's word, all this stuff. Like the angels really knew who God was.

They knew exactly what they were doing when they rebelled. And that's why there's no chance of repentance for them. So that's kind of another line you can take.

I don't know which one is true about what Bryce was saying or whatever. I can read up on it more and try to have a more better view of it. But those are really the only big texts against what we're saying here.

They really don't have much. It's not a very biblically sound theological doctrine that the saints will not persevere, but they're not kept. And it's kind of hard to live your Christian faith like that.

You know, what's your hope? Your hope is just that you can keep yourself. So that's good. Miss anything? Well, happy Easter guys.

Thanks for listening for you guys that are overseas and stuff. That's awesome. Again, go check out Zach's blog.

Really good stuff there. Any other announcements? Yeah, guys, I'm just having a tough time in school right now. So I've had a chance to put the website out or anything, but hopefully we want to start building up this platform once I get more time after I graduate.

I can spend a little bit more time like I'd like to on the podcast. But as of right now, we're just kind of, uh, you know, it's better just to start. Like it's not going to be perfect.

So thanks for bearing with us guys. When maybe some parts aren't as interesting or as biblically sound as you would want them or something like that. Just, um, really just wanted to start something, you know, it's hard to just be perfect right off the bat or have all this knowledge ready to go.

So it's impossible. And then once Bryce goes to seminary, I can just have him on and then I can start interviewing him. That way I don't have to do anything.

No, I can just, just show up. Okay. Well, thanks for listening guys.

This is the for the King podcast and any inquiries to, uh, for the King podcast@gmail.com. If you would like to reach out to me, if you disagree with anything, send me some resources to read. If you really think we're wrong on this or, um, you know, anything like that. I always love learning.

Um, also, uh, grant listener grant sent, uh, me an interesting paper about the age of the earth. Uh, it's a Christian physicist that argues for an old earth, like four, like, you know, three billion for earth, 14 billion for the universe. I just finished reading it.

So I hope to do a podcast on it here since grant sent it to me. And I told you guys I would interact with this stuff. So I think I'm going to do a meaningful monologue on that, uh, on that read.

It's a short little 30 page document. So I'll put it in there and hopefully you guys will find that interesting. Um, yeah, let's celebrate Christ that he rose from the dead.

That is our hope. Uh, have a great Sunday guys and have a great rest of your week. Love you all.

Solely day. Oh, stay with me now. Gloria.

Okay.

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