Masculinity & Femininity in the Church

00:00

Masculinity & Femininity in the Church

September 26, 2021

This week Bryce and I continue to walk through biblical masculinity and femininity. We move first, after defining our terms three weeks ago, to the home, and now to the church. The church is the bulwark against an evil and God-hating world. The church has been tasked with the proclamation of the gospel through public gathering and worship of God and sending families out into our communities to win the nations to Christ. For the organization to run well God has instituted certain members of his church to be leaders and servants of the church known as elders and deacons. This week bryce and I walk through how masculinity and femininity play out in the church. Certain men being the leaders and the rest of the men and women to follow them who ultimately follow Christ. Thanks for tuning in! I hope you are continuing to enjoy the series that is so needed in our culture.

Key Texts: Isaiah 3:12 ; 1 Corinthians 11:5, 14:33-35 ; Philippians 4:2-3 ; 1 Timothy 2:8-15, 3:1-13, 5:10 ; Titus 1:5-9, 2:3-5

Resources :

* Masculine Christianity by Zach Garris

* The Household and the War for the Cosmos by C.R Wiley

* Article by Zach Garris (https://knowingscripture.com/articles/the-womans-desire-and-the-mans-rule-genesis-3-16)

* Blog by Doug Wilson (https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/masculinity-without-permission.html)

My guest joining me this week on the Sunday series is my brother Bryce. Bryce is getting his undergraduate degree in philosophy and hopes to get his MDiv. from a seminary after he completes his undergrad. He hopes to be a pastor shepherding Gods people one day.

Website: forthekingpodcast.com

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/For-The-King-105492691873696/

Contact: forthekingpodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

Don't think I will even ask you to make Jesus the Lord of your life. That's the most preposterous thing I could ever tell you to do. Jesus Christ is Lord of your life.

Whether you serve him or not, whether you bless him, curse him, hate him, or love him, he is the Lord of your life.

(music) Pilate asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" and he answered him, "You have said so." Hello everybody. Welcome to the For The King podcast where Jesus is recognized as the king, not only as you heard in that intro, of my life, of Bryce's life, my co-host here, but also your life, whether you know Christ or not.

He's your king. So that is what we preach here. That's what we talk about.

That's what the Bible attached to. That's who Jesus is. He's just the king.

Get over yourself. You're not the king of your life. Jesus is your Lord.

So yeah. You anything to add, Bryce? In effect, we are the Krishna mafia where we take pipes and we bust the kneecaps and we say bend the knee twice. We don't hurt anybody.

If you don't bend your knee to Christ, we'll bust your kneecaps with a baseball bat and put you in the gutter and hope it rains. That would be insane. I bet that there has been stuff like that.

Charlemagne, baby. Yeah. In the church history, Charlemagne would make you get baptized and if you wouldn't get baptized, he would kill you.

They would baptize you by tying you to a stone. Yeah. They'd throw you in the river.

It's absolutely insane. So hey, Jesus is the king. He's going to come back and bring judgment.

That's not for Bryce and I to do. We're not out here trying to fight people, but we will battle you with words and with God's word, which is the sword. So we're more than happy to have that debate.

Yeah. But if we get punched in the face, we'll probably punch you back. So I'll just come up and punch us.

We'll probably punch you back. But we're not going to punch you first. I wouldn't punch him back.

I'd do a flying roundhouse. I'd back it up in the back like I was her. Ow.

Oh, you hurt me. Boom. Roundhouse.

A question mark, Kirk. Yeah. Those things are awesome.

Yeah. You were showing me that. Okay.

So yeah, there we go. That's some stuff about us. Okay.

So what are we talking about today? Content of this episode. As you'll see in the title, we're talking about biblical gender roles, masculinity and femininity in the church. So we're building an argument, a progressive argument.

We first defined it, defined, uh, masculinity and femininity via God's word. He tells us what reality is. And then we've, after defining our terms, we moved on to how masculinity and femininity plays out in the home, which is the basic unit of society.

So now we're moving up into more complex parts of society that God has also ordained in certain things. Stop by your nail. Stop it.

Just that one little piece. I don't have a habit of it. Just one little piece.

I know. I know. I know.

Just bugs me. We'll get the clippers later. We'll get you all a script.

Okay. Um, so today we're talking about the church, which, uh, the church is, oh man, I see you got it. The church is comprised of a bunch of different families.

So we've now found out from God's word how men and women act and play out their gender roles in the family. And now these families that consist of the church, how, how do these families that consist of men and women that congregate together and assembled together in a public gathering to worship, which is what the church is. How do they play out their masculinity and femininity? So now we're getting into that portion of God's word and gender roles.

Okay. Um, okay. Anything bad? I think that's what we're doing today.

That's what we're setting out to accomplish. So we're going to go through subscriptions. I'll put them in the show notes.

I'll put all that stuff. Um, and, uh, thanks for listening. Thanks for tuning in wherever you guys are at.

I hope you enjoy this content. Okay. So let's start off obviously the whole story arc of the scriptures.

It's one continuous story telling about God redeeming humanity. Now he tells us what to do as humans. There's a lot of imperatives all throughout the scriptures.

Um, a lot of definitions, a lot of, um, revelation of who God is and what he has done. Um, like me and Zach Garris talked about. You can go check out that interview and also like Bryce and I have been talking about as we defined the last two episodes.

Um, masculinity and femininity is rooted in the creation order. So what do we mean by that? Uh, the creation order is the way God, um, makes things to be when he creates them, they have a Talos, they have a goal, they're goal oriented. So men and women have a goal, which is the cultural mandate, the dominion mandate, whatever you want to call it in Genesis one and two, where he basically says go multiply and reproduce and have a dominion over the whole earth.

Yeah. So our goal is to have dominion over the whole earth, uh, and multiply and reproduce. Yeah.

Uh, and to glorify God that we, you know, we have more things. We're to love our Lord our God with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength. Um, all of that kind of stuff gets fleshed out as God reveals himself more to us in the scriptures.

But, uh, these are the commands we're given. And, um, so, so men and women together have this, this goal. Now, um, obviously that's played out in all the spheres we're getting into.

So today the church, um, we saw a lot last week how Adam was the head of his wife, Eve, and God laid that out. But then we get into, um, all these different roles that are in the church. So God eventually sets up through Moses, the Levitical priesthood and, um, you know, the priests, sorry, the priest, Moses himself is a prophet.

God begins raising up prophets all throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament to reveal himself more, to put his very words into their mouth as a spokesman person, uh, over God's people, um, prophet, priests. And then we also have kings and sometimes those all overlap, like David was a prophet and a king. Um, so yeah, we have some of these people overlap.

But basically what we see is that all of these people end up being men. Um, the Levitical priests were all men. Um, the, the kings were all kings.

They're men, not queens. And they had queens, but, but they were, they were men, obviously. That's entailed in that office.

Well, they actually didn't have queens. They weren't, there wasn't the title, title queen prescribed to them. Really? It was just king.

There's a king in the concumines, a bunch of concumines. His wives in the concumines. Wives and concumines, yeah.

The queen is a, queen is a later, feminist, like, insert. Really? Okay. Uh, okay.

So apparently I, yeah, so keep that mind, I guess. Um, and all, all the, all the, um, priests and kings were men and then we get to prophets. Now, some of the prophets in the Old Testament were women.

Um, a majority of them that came to God's people, for instance, all of the scriptures we have, the major and minor prophets, they're all men. Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Habakkuk, Obaniah, all these guys, Zechariah, they're all men. David, all the kings that were also prophets, men.

Now we have a few stories, uh, where there is a, a female prophetess that is obviously considered upright and whole in God's eyes and God uses these women to minister to his people in certain ways. Now, the ways he does it, uh, real quick note with Deborah and Barack. Deborah comes privately before Barack.

Other prophets in the Old Testament would come publicly, would come publicly forward to God's people, for instance, like Isaiah and Ezekiel, Jeremiah, they would come before God's people, before all the elders, before, and literally preach like, like Nehemiah, Ezra. These men would come before the whole congregation, the whole assembly, and they would publicly speak authoritatively and prophesy before the people. Now, these little, uh, really particular stories about women, like prophetesses, they always would come privately to men or in a co-ed gathering, and yes, they would bring God's word.

They would, they're prophets. And, uh, they would hear a word from God and relay that. So, in the story with Deborah and Barack, which is the kind of the highlight that people always go to, all the egalitarian, um, they'll say, "Oh, look, Deborah was a prophet, therefore, you know, prophecy is proclaiming the word of God, therefore, women can come." Uh, "Therefore, women can be preaching the whole thing." They can be preachers, they can be shepherds.

Um, now, what happens in, in Deborah and Barack is, if, if Deborah really considered herself a shepherd or this, like, public figure for Israel, why would she go to Barack when these other prophets would come publicly before the whole assembly and deliver the word there? She, she goes to Barack privately, and then Barack goes out and leads on her behalf. So, some of the other judges, like Samson, he doesn't go to, he leads. He just goes out and does this and brings the word of God and goes and leads in battle and all these different ways men lead.

He, he never goes and consults anybody else. Some of them also would have, you know, Gideon and Ehud and all these guys, they would just go and lead Israel. But what the woman prophetess does that God sends to judges real, the way she plays out her femininity in the church of the assembly of God is that she goes to Barack, tells her the words of God, and then Barack goes and leads the assembly of Israel.

Now, Barack isn't the best leader. He is in the Hall of Faith, uh, in, in Hebrews 11. He is, Barack is one of the faithful men that we should model ourselves after, but... And, and Deborah isn't mentioned in Hebrews 11 as well, which is an interesting point.

Yeah, no, whether, yeah, exactly what I mentioned. It was, it was the strong male leaders of, yeah, so do what? And if I may too, like... Yeah, you may. Even in, even in Barack and Deborah's circumstance as well, it wasn't Deborah asserting her authority over Barack.

What happened was Barack subjected himself as a pretty much a wimp and a weakling. And Deborah goes to him and says, "You lead. This is your job." Yeah, she literally says, "Go and get your men and lead them out." Like, she knows her role.

Exactly, yeah. So when the egalitarian's use her, it's like, go read how she handled herself. Like, yeah, exactly.

And a more equivalent example would be like a woman going to her husband or to another male and saying, "I'm not supposed to preach. You need to get up and preach." Exactly, exactly. Be a man, yeah.

That's like the equivalent. That's what God the woman does. The equivalent would not be, "Oh, Deborah, you know, she's a prophet, therefore now women can be preachers." That's not the same equivalent.

The equivalent to that passage only in context would be going to another male and saying, or your husband and saying, "You must lead. You must preach." Exactly. So that's the best you can do.

You can't use that as an argument for women preachers. So yeah, wanted to bring up that quick objection. There are other prophetesses in the scriptures, but that is the point of when those occurrences happened and how the women handled themselves.

And even for further study too, you can look up Hannah in the New Testament and the way that she was a prophetess. Exactly. It wasn't her standing before the people in the church.

It was her in private worship to God praying and fasting to Him. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. And that would be our stance on First Corinthians, just while we're on the topic. That would be our stance on First Corinthians 11.5 as we talk about things more.

Yeah. But that way, this podcast would go so long if we revisited that. So remember, that is what we're saying for First Corinthians 11.5, and I'll mention it later in the podcast.

Yeah. Okay. So that's the Old Testament.

"Prophet, priests, and the kings, all of these leaders were always men." Now let's move to the New Testament. Radical shift. Radical shift.

So women are now leaders, they're preachers. Psych. Psych.

Psych. We see continuity between the Old and the New Testament. Would you imagine that? Continuity in God's Word.

Women still have the same roles they've had in the Old Testament. And those don't change. So all of the apostles, first of all, I should have mentioned this at the beginning.

God Himself is a masculine figure. He is the great patriarch. Jesus Christ, the great patriarch.

The Holy Spirit, He, the great patriarch. He, the counselor. When Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit, John 15, He will come and lead you into all truth.

He, it's a He. God is not a woman. God is masculine.

Masculinity is how God portrays Himself to us because He's the leader. He leads us. He has the authority.

He has all rule. He has all power. He's almighty.

He's a He. He's a He. He's a He.

Okay. So first of all, I should have rooted it all that, but that's who God is. In the New Testament, we get all the apostles that Christ chooses.

Some egalitarianists would say, "But Mary Magdalene was in there and there was women that traveled with Jesus, and they had the same authority. They were cashing on demons." They do not. I've never heard anyone say that.

Yeah, you sound like that. Yeah, sound like that. I was definitely just being weird.

But no, these women were not given the same authority. They weren't given authority like the apostles were. Okay.

So these women that traveled with Jesus, Jesus never delegated authority to them and sent them out. It was the 72 men that Jesus sent out. It was the 12 apostles that Jesus gave all authority in heaven and earth, as well as us.

Right? Um, yeah, that just sounded a little weird. What did I say? Because Jesus says He has all authority on earth. Oh, sorry.

No, I'm sorry. He said, "Go there for because Jesus has authority." So that's what I meant. My point is He gave them authority to cast out demons.

Not all authority. I'm sorry. I didn't say that wrong.

That's what I meant. Sorry. That's my point.

No heresy here, folks. Okay? Forgive me. I spoke wrong.

I'm speaking a lot right now. Bryce will come in in a second and give us some of his two cents. If he ever lets me.

Sorry. I'm almost done. Then we get, um, obviously we don't have kings of Israel at this point.

There may have been. But I mean, Christ is the king of Israel. That's the whole point of my class.

He's the king. They have no king but Caesar. Yeah.

They have no king but Caesar. So they've now abandoned God's people. That God sends to them.

They always kill the prophets. They always would disobey. The kings would do evil.

The kings themselves would disobey. So yeah. God's people at this point have abandoned.

So now we see the apostles being chosen. That are men. We have the leaders of the church are men.

These men that Paul will talk to were Titus, Timothy. These young men that are about to be the new leaders of the church. That we, you know, in some of the ancient patristic texts we have, like what happened.

But yeah, these men get, God raises up and Paul does as well. So yes, God himself is masculine. Old Testament masculine rule.

New Testament masculine rule. So that is the story. Yeah.

The roles of the church. God's people. Yeah.

Um, okay. Now let's get into, sorry. And then one, before we actually get into the text, I wanted to go to Isaiah.

You guys want to go read this. This is kind of telling of what God thinks about women ruling over his people. The church and Isaiah three 12.

This is where God says, my people, infants are their oppressors and women rule over them. Oh, my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths. So, um, the ESV title of the section is judgment on Judah and Jerusalem.

And they're not arbitrarily making that up. This whole text is talking about the ways that God's people have basically wagged their fists at God and dishonored him. And have gone other false teachers and all this stuff.

And what's one of the things that God says that he's indicting them for and why they're going to have judgment coming upon them. Because infants are their oppressors, basically weak men. He's calling them the men that do that oppress them are weak and women rule over them.

Yeah. That's what's wrong with Israel in this text. Um, so keep that mind as we move forward in these, these verses and what I just laid out from all of the Bible.

Yeah. That God is not happy when his people are led by a bunch of women. Yeah.

Um, and we'll even go further next episode and even when, you know, natural nations are led by women as well. Yeah. And that's what this is talking.

This isn't even talking about the church. It is a whole custom of church. Yeah.

Well, no, no, I'm saying it is. It's talking about, um, I bet some of the, some of the priests were women with some of the cults that were around. Because usually women would be in the cults and stuff now that they were often exiled or whatever.

But, uh, yeah, honestly, the thrust of that passage, uh, passage is women are ruling over them probably in the civil realm, not even in the, in the assembly. Yeah. So yeah, we'll get to that next episode how God even obviously hates it when women rule over the assembly or church from the civil sphere.

Yeah. But, uh, my point here in this passage is obviously God is not pleased to have women ruling over his people or ruling over society. And, and again, this should go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyways because of the state of our posture.

Um, we are not saying that women are stupid. Yeah. Not saying that women are worthless.

We're not saying that they're good for nothing. But simply what we're saying is that it is not the woman's God ordained role to be ruling. Yeah.

Women's and the woman's God ordained role is to be in subjection. Like we talked about last, last, last, uh, last episode in the family. I'm going to be submissive to their husbands and to their authorities.

Yeah. Um, but again, this doesn't de, degrade the value of women. Women have a very special role.

Exactly. Okay. So women aren't worthless.

We need to make sure that we're understanding that because I know a lot of, uh, feminists and some liberals would rip that out of context and say, oh, you are saying this. Oh, they would hate so much what we're saying right now. Even the words we use, the role, the patriarchy, all that.

And we actually herald, I'm going to say this in like kind of a satirical manner, but like we are feminists only in the sense that we believe that women are very important and that we herald the position that they ought to be doing their God ordained role. Yeah. And they actually matter.

The feminists, which we're not actually feminists. That's a, just because of the, the obviously of that movement, but, um, the feminists want to subject the woman to, they want to make them men and women aren't men. Exactly.

Yeah. Feminists degrade women, hate women. They, frankly, they do.

They hate women. They hate women. Yeah.

They want men to act or sorry, women to act like men. So the, the best way for women to be women is to act like men and to do the things that men have done historically for the past 6,000 years. Yeah.

That sounds great. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, they hate women and yeah, what women in these positions usually aren't happy. Yeah.

Um, we should probably start hopping into the text. Let's hop into the text so we can, we can get through this because we're already 20 minutes in. We can talk about the specific text.

Okay. So. Rocky says he happened.

We're going to, I'm sorry. I'm just joking. Okay.

First Timothy two, hurry, hurry, hurry. Flip. Bryce and I like to have the, uh, the physical word of God here.

So give us a second. If you want to read three first and then hop back to two and talk about the how it fleshes out. Sure.

Let's read three first. Um, three, I'm going to read one through 13. The saying is trustworthy.

If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach the husband of one wife sober minded self control. Actually, I don't need to read all of it.

Basically these men, the main thrust is the husband of one wife in verse two. And then verse four also goes into he must manage his own household well. Again, talk about authority, but keep going.

Yeah. Uh, so that, that, in terms of gendering and making this position masculine, we just have that laid out the task. And then it deacons starting in verse eight deacons likewise must be dignified, not double tongue, not addicted to much wine or greedy for dishonest gain.

Um, they must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscious and let them also be tested first, then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified and then, you know, and then it lays out what the wife should be like. And then in verse 12, let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their households, managing their children and their households well.

Okay. Both of these positions will explicitly say, um, let the deacons let the elder be, uh, be the husband of one wife. So this role, these two roles that are being laid out and yes, it's the same word.

The acronyms that's used elsewhere. But here it's talking about qualifications for what, what do you need to be qualified for a position, a job? You don't need to be qualified to do some random arbitrary task. Yeah.

This is, this is a specific role in the church. Yeah. And, and something to the, I just got shaken.

So this is the only analogy that comes to my mind. Um, we have two roosters, eight hens. We probably should have more hens for that ratio.

But one of the roosters is going to establish a pecking order and then he is the top of the hierarchy. And then he goes all the hens. And then the very last one is the second rooster.

Um, and that's how the hierarchy goes. This, the way we should think about elders or overseers and deacons is not in that manner that they're both the roosters and you have, um, the overseers, which is the first rooster. And then you have the whole congregation and then you have the deacons last.

Like both of these are positions in offices of authority. Yes. The deacons are serving.

They're subjecting themselves under the church to help lift it up. And they're going and visiting widows and orphans and all these different things. Um, but at the end of the day, they still hold a position of authority, which is why it's only given to men.

And I know there's some people out there who think that a deacon, there's, there's a role for deaconesses and they go to Roman 16, which is they have one text that doesn't even say what they think it says. And it talks about this woman, Junia. And Paul says that Junia is a deaconess, but the word diaconos just means servant.

So in this context, we read this and understand that this is talking about the office of the deacon. But in Romans 13, it also says that the institution of government is a deaconess, the servant. So do we mean that that is the office of deacon? Clearly.

The office of deacon for the church. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Really not.

So we have to understand in context that this is for the woman, it's talking about her being a servant and the reason what drives that. What drives that interpretation even further is that clearly this passage says that Deacon is the husband of one wife. A wife can't be unless Rocky made this really good point earlier, unless she's a lesbian, the wife can't.

Then she can be a deacon because she has a wife. But no, in all honesty, I just think that's super blatantly obvious and clear. And I don't know how you would go elsewhere.

So yeah, the constitution of the church is again, like Rocky mentioned, from continuity from Old Testament to New Testament is that men rule. And both offices, elder, overseer, elder, pastor, mean the same thing. That and deacon.

Just to reiterate, when we say men rule, we're not saying men are better than women. We're saying men have a specific role that women cannot fill. Women have a specific role that men cannot fill.

Exactly. We're not talking about value. We never ever, this is never ever a value thing.

This is a specific role of authority. And yeah, I mean, Bryce, a few episodes have a good point that most people would say more authority means more value. But it's not the biblical concept of authority in this sense.

And even, I mean, honestly, you even get that, I mean, this little derail, but you even get that in the constitution too in Article 2 when it talks about the executive power, talks about the president. The president swears an oath to uphold the constitution and he himself is subjected under it because he is a citizen. So he has more authority and he's on a higher hierarchy than us, but that doesn't mean that he is more valuable as a indignity and as a human being than us.

Exactly. Right. So I mean, that's just something that even the founding fathers picked up on.

This is just something that the Bible clearly lays out. So yeah, yeah, that's just a modern understanding that power equals more value. So we made that point now.

We're not going to read it because it says the exact same thing, but Titus 1 also. So this is Titus. Yeah.

Titus 1 also lays out the qualifications for elder. It isn't, is it a deacon? No. Yeah, there's no deacon.

Yeah, no, it doesn't bring up deacon. So it doesn't bring up deacon in Titus, but that would be the other place you would go to to figure out the qualifications for an elder. And again, it says husband or one wife.

Yeah. Okay. So we're not going to labor to go there because we're running out of time.

Yeah. Okay. Now let's go to, let's go to the texts that talk about maybe flushing this out, how the gender roles will work.

Now, 1 Timothy 2, do you want to read this? I mean, sure. 1 Timothy 2, let's start in verse 11. Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. And then verse 15, we already covered in a previous episode. Exactly.

So the context prior to that is talking about the way that women ought to adorn themselves. And it's with the adorning of a quiet and submissive heart. That's not with the braiding of hair, but it's rather of the internal manner.

It's not the way that they're externally adorning themselves. And then they go to this statement that a woman is to learn quietly with all submissiveness. And she's not to permit a woman to teach.

No, sorry. A women are not permitted to teach or to exercise authority over a man. So teaching in and of itself is authoritative.

So women can't teach. So let's flush us out on what that means. So Rocky, can a woman teach a seminary class? Can she teach pastors how to be a pastor? No.

No, why not? Because she can't teach a role or teach about a role that she can't fill. And also she'd be exercising authority over a man. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And when you look here too, you're seeing two things happening.

People conflate this and say they mean... I was listening to D.A. Carson and Timothy Keller talk about this. And D.A. Carson made a good point, even though they're both kind of egalitarian. Timothy Keller definitely is.

But that doesn't mean they're not Christians. But they looked at this text and said that a woman can't teach or exercise authority over a man. And then D.A. Carson said, "The question is, is it two things or is it one thing?" And he goes, "Well, Greek... When you look syntactically at the Greek, it's two things." And then he went on to say this, "But it's pretty much one thing." And then him and Timothy Keller kind of went on that.

And that's not to belittle them in any sort of like extravagant way. But he made it by his own omission, a Greek scholar. There's two things happening here.

The woman can't exercise authority over a man. And another way, they can't do anything like that. A different section is they also can't teach.

So a woman cannot teach a seminary course. A woman cannot get up and teach at a conference. A woman shouldn't do that.

A woman shouldn't teach in front of a bunch of people. And this is not talking about the church environment. And here's the reason, because it's grounded in creation.

That's the whole point. Paul then goes on to the order of the constitution of a church afterwards, which we read in chapter 3, but we're still in chapter 2. Right? This whole book is in a sense the ordering of a church, but this little caveat right here is qualified by the reason is because Adam was formed first and then Eve. Yeah, it doesn't say because of some cultural thing or whatever.

This transcends culture. This would apply also to can a woman teach in college? Like just not even about a seminary is preparing pastors. Can a woman teach math at a seminary? Calc 2. Difficues, linear algebra, whatever.

And what is one of the reasons? Okay, chapter verse 14. And this is going to sound like two modern ears that were bashing women. And please don't go there because we're trying to relieve women and to exalt their glory.

Women have glory, but it's only glorious when it's in their God-Odain role. So it says in verse 14, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived." Whoa, what does that mean? This means that not that a woman has less intellect than a man. It doesn't mean they're stupid and a man is smart.

What this means is a moral deception that women are just more likely to be led astray. And this is just an obvious fact. Statistically, women are just more gullible.

They're more likely to be led away by persuasive men. That's why you see in cults, you see a lot of cult leaders swaying away. That's what I was going to bring up.

Those cults, adherents are women. And here's the reason why, okay, so because women are not able to teach, it also goes into if they were, they are more easily deceived so that they would not teach what is proper. There's going to come a time when they are going to teach something that's wrong.

Like the professors that I have at my secular university, I mean, obviously I've learned stuff from them. We're not saying that women can't understand math or women can't teach cult too or teach or whatever. We're not saying that they're stupid because indeed a woman should know those things when they teach their children.

Because women are allowed to teach their children because like it says in Titus, there is a role for a woman to teach. But a woman is not to teach or exercise authority over men. That's the whole point because that's disrupting the hierarchy.

But we do know based upon Ephesians 6 that a man and a woman are hierarchically above the children. So a woman does have that ability there and to teach younger women like it says in Titus, which is another glorious text, which we probably should spend a little bit more time on. But my professors in college, they're just, they're not as good.

I just, there's, I noticed so many inconsistencies that they bring up. They simplify everything and paint a broad brush. And it's all just feminism.

All my history professors are women and they always want to talk about women in the colonial America and stuff. It's like, that's fine. Like I'm, I'm, I think obviously it's historical.

We should look into that. But they, if they make it so much about that and it's all just victimizing and it's just, it's dumb. Yeah.

There's, there's a lady, a philosophy professor that I had and yeah, she, we read a bunch of like female philosophy. Yeah. And she, she was a big hardcore feminist and she would talk about how what I need to be represented more in philosophy and all that stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just like agenda driven and not really academic and not helpful really to society.

Yeah. But that, that's what we're talking about. It's not that with what Rocky just said, it's not necessarily that they're like academically dumb.

What it is, is that there's a moral susceptibility to deception that now Rocky's going to learn a lot of feminist jargon. That's not good. It's not good philosophy because of the moral deception that's occurred.

Yeah. Women can be great teachers and maybe teach a kid obviously better than maybe the man could, if he cues or whatever. We're not saying they can't understand or ascend intellectually to these things.

Women definitely can. The problem isn't intellectual. The problem is the authority.

Where's the authority at? Yeah. And indeed we should go even further. They should know these things.

They shouldn't be just stupid brutes. They're not animals. Yeah.

Right. And that's not our position. We don't think that women are animals.

We don't think that they're just, they're on the same level. Like we're not those people who read Genesis and say when God brought forth a bunch of animals and none of those were good enough, then he brought up another animal, Eve. That's not, we don't believe that kind of crap.

That's stupid. A woman is more glorious than all the animals. She's not an animal in and of herself.

She's the image of God. She's in the image of God. Just like man.

Right? We're both man in the image of God. And she has the capability to learn, to understand and to have a conscience just like we do. But a woman does have a God ordained rule to teach.

And what is that rule? It's to teach younger women like it says in Titus. And it's to teach her children. Right? Women are to teach younger women.

That's why women's ministries are biblical because they should be teaching younger women. Now women's ministry should not be focused though on just pure emotionalism and teaching nonsense. Exactly.

And just talking about your feelings and yada yada. Oh, you like this boy, blah blah blah blah blah. It's just a bunch of jargon.

We should just, they should focus on teaching that which accords with godliness. And this is in Titus chapter two verse three it says, "Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanders or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good.

And so train the young men." No. "And so train the young women to love their husbands and children and to be self controlled, pure, working at home." That always gets me. "Kind and submissive to their own husbands that the word of God may not be reviled." So women are supposed to teach other women.

Yeah. And that's a glorious task. Julianna, my wife, loves doing that.

She has younger women that she disciples and she teaches them very well. She teaches them how to be godly young women who are going to be submissive to their future husbands, to their parents. And she walks them through scripture.

She does a great job, Julianna's, discipled by one of our elders wives. And she does a great job teaching her. She really helps her out to learn how to be a godly woman, to be quiet and submissive to me, not in an authoritarian type way, but understanding to be reverent in behavior that I am the authority in the home.

Yeah. So women do have a god-owned day to be able to teach. Exactly.

Okay, if you guys are offended, this is what the word of God teaches and we're just trying to be faithful to it. And just hear us again. We don't hate women.

We've been saying that a million times. And people will say, "Oh, confirmation bias," or whatever. Is that the term? I forget the term.

Where do you have to keep saying something to try to make yourself believe that you actually think that or whatever? I don't know what the term is. I don't know either. Sure.

But yeah, just because we're saying, we're anticipating rejections. We're not trying to overcompensate. We really do think that God paints a picture in his word of how valuable women are.

And we're trying to lay that out the best way God has told us how men and women are supposed to be. Yeah, we don't work on the same value systems as others. We're talking about the value that God has given, not what you might think may be glorious.

That's what God says is glorious. Okay, real quick. Let's wrap this up.

Can I say one more thing real fast? Sure. It might seem like we're overemphasizing and talking a lot about women. And I think we are kind of doing that on purpose.

And the reason is because feminism is just overtaking culture. So we're just trying to overbalance. There's one end of the pendulum, which is feminism, and we're trying to swing all the way to the other end to kind of balance it out and get it back in the middle.

So we are overemphasizing. There is a lot more that goes on to the role of being a pastor and elder. And obviously, that's not what this is about specifically.

So we are overemphasizing. I know we're doing that on purpose because there's a big need for that. Exactly.

Yeah. We're just pushing back heavily against feminism. But obviously, Bryce and I are saying we have everything figured out about God's Word, but God's Word does have a truth about this, and we're trying to uncover that.

And we think a majority of it we have come to understand, especially at being rooted in the creation order. That's huge. Okay, so another big text for this as we kind of wrap up here, 1 Corinthians 14, 33-35 says, "For God is not a god of confusion but of peace.

As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the law also says. If there's anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." Shameful? For a woman to get up in front of the congregation and to teach them is shameful. And women that realize, like, you know, if Beth Moore ever realizes what she's doing, like, I pray that she would realize the shame she's brought upon the name of God because of what she's doing.

And defamed God's church, you know, and his bride. And yeah, so it's a sad thing. So basically that just kind of, basically another text that affirms that first activity to principle that they should remain quiet.

You know, in the churches, yes, but also in other parts of, that men are authoritative as opposed to walking, being the leaders. And not only the church, but what we're going to get to next week, also the whole civil society. Yeah.

But yeah, today we'll stick with the church and these are the texts we get that women are not permitted to teach men authoritatively in the church gathering. And if this is irking you out, if this is something to where you just heavily disagree with us, you know, you're feeling very anxious. And any sorts of these things we do want to just offer and say humbly that this is, again, this is what the word of God says.

You have a problem, not with us, but with God. And if you think that we're wrong, well, you need to repent and believe in Christ. Christ can remedy all these things because in our own autonomy, thinking the way that we want to think, it's never going to work out.

We need to trust the light of what scripture says and we need to believe that we might understand, not try to understand now and then later on believe it. We believe Christ. We take God in faith on his promises.

We believe in Christ and the perfect work on the cross that he's done for us. And we put our trust in him and he takes away our sins. He cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

So we need to turn to Christ and repentance for all these different things. Christ is the only remedy and in that we will have the light and the humility to accept his word as it is and to trust in him alone. So we just would humbly say that that's the gospel message.

That's the message of salvation. And that's the only way to find peace and remedy for these issues with God. Exactly.

Okay, real quick, let's lighten up a little bit and just finish on a couple of real quick texts about the awesome ministry that women have been given. The really great and cool useful things that women can do for the body of Christ. That is needed.

And without these women doing these things, the body of Christ will suffer heavily. Titus 2, 3-5. Older women likewise are to be reverent behavior, not slanders or slaves to much wine.

They are to teach what is good and so to train the young women to love their husbands and children to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kindness, and missive to their own husbands. That the word of God might not be reviled, but I already read that, but I'll read it again as we finish this up. This is a ministry women have been given.

And without that, the women will, like we've seen in our churches, when the older women don't do this, the younger women wear crop tops and show off their butts and don't dress properly and aren't self-controlled, don't respect their husbands, don't love their husbands. Wayward women. Don't read the Bible.

Don't read the Bible. Gossips. Not good.

In 1 Timothy 5, it talks about widows' role on the church. It says, "And having a reputation for good works, if she has brought up children already," as a widow, she's already had children, "has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work." So that's for widows, specifically, a way that widows do ministry, but obviously women do the same thing. And then the last one, where's it at? Oh, Philippians.

This one's cool. Philippians 2, 4 through 3. Oh, Philippians 2, 4 through 3. Whoops. Wait.

Oh, 4 through 3. My bad. I'm dyslexic. "I entreat theodia and I treat centice or whatever to agree the Lord.

Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women who have labored side by side with me in the Gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers whose names are in the Book of White." Okay. "Women labor side by side with their men." Both of the genders have a role to walk out in the Church, but men and women together in the Church labor side by side to love the unbelieving world around us, to call them to repentance and to partner together in the Gospel and deliver the Gospel to the nations. "Blessed are the feet of those who bring good news." Right.

Both men and women. "Blessed are those feet." Okay. So, men are together in this, and it's best done when men are authoritatively ruling over the Church and loving the Church, caring for the Church, caring for their wives, but specifically caring for the Church.

And when women in quietness and submissiveness love their husbands, respect their husbands and respect the authority God has given to men in the Church and come underneath that and partner with these men in their specific roles to do these things. So, yes, they partner with the Gospel. Yeah.

Good? Yeah. So, I wanted to finish up with that. This is, women have been given ministry to do, and without them doing it, the Church would suffer greatly.

Yeah. Men and women both need to walk in their roles. It's a glorious gift.

Yeah, it's a good gift. Okay. Sorry this went a little longer, but we had to just get through a lot.

I mean, this was very important. We're literally battling feminism, one of the worst things to happen in our society, one of the biggest forces against the Church. Yeah.

It's hatred of God's word at its core. Yeah. Okay, so thanks for listening, guys.

If you have any last comments, thanks for listening. Good start on the Facebook page, For the King. I need to be more faithful to uploading on that.

For the King podcast. And give it a like on the Facebook page. Share this on your social media.

Give it a like on Apple Podcasts, or leave a comment. That would be awesome, too. Check out the website, forthekingpodcast.com. You can interact with this if this really sets you off and you're very furious with me and Bryce.

You can always send us an email or come on the podcast and we can talk about it, or we can have a private conversation, whatever you want to do. You can reach me at forthekingpodcast@gmail.com. Those are some ways you guys can interact with the podcast. Thanks so much for listening.

And now I'm going to read a doxology. First Timothy 1, 17. To the King of the Ages, a mortal and visible, the only God, be honored and glory forever and ever.

Amen. Sole day of Gloria. For the King.

For the King. For the King. For the King Jesus.