Interview with Chris Anderson: Coaching a Little 500 Team & Christian Excellency

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Interview with Chris Anderson: Coaching a Little 500 Team & Christian Excellency

January 26, 2022

This Wednesday I am joined by an old friend of mine from college, Chris Anderson. In this episode we walk through what he does as a coach for a little 500 team and how he uses it to impact the lives of the people not only on the team, but also in the race. We then turn a fundamental principle in the Christian faith. That principle is best laid out in the Latin phrase "Soli Deo Gloria" translated... to God alone be the Glory. We must remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ on the sermon on the mount,

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."

If you would like support the cycling team you can go to XA Cycling Fundraising Page – All donations are tax-deductible as a charitable contribution since Chi Alpha files as a 501c-3 non-profit.

You can also be involved with the ministry by following @xacycling on Instagram for the most current updates, or @xacycling on Facebook for monthly newsletter updates for our financial contributors.

Key Texts:

* 1 Corinthians 10:19-31, 9:19-24, 10:31, 6:20

* Hebrews 12:1

* Matthew 5:13-16

* James 4:14

* Ecclesiastes 2:22

* Psalm 1, 34:3, 50:15

* Colossians 3:17, 23-24

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Transcript

You don't have to ride. No one's forcing you to ride. Just because you're on a team, you don't have to actually do the training.

You don't have to do the things if you don't want to, but you can use a light in that as something that you love. You love cycling that much that you're going to put in the time and do that. I think the same way with our faith man.

God gave us the ability to love Him because we realized the depths of His love. In response, we want to do things for Him. We desire to read God's Word, but we also recognize that it is a duty that we do.

But we take on that with the light because we love Him, because He loved us first. Don't think I will even ask you to make Jesus Lord of your life. That's the most preposterous thing I could ever tell you to do.

Jesus Christ is Lord of your life. Whether you serve Him or not, whether you bless Him, curse Him, hate Him, or love Him, He is the Lord of your life because God has given Him a name that is above every name so that the name of Jesus Christ every knee shall bow and tongue confess that He is Lord. Some of you will bow out of the grace that has been given to you, and others will bow because your kneecaps will be broken by the one who rules the nations with a rod of iron.

And I'll not apologize for this God of the Bible. Hello, welcome to the For the King podcast. I always start off with some scripture, so I'm going to be reading from Psalm 50 verses 12 through 15.

If I were hungry, I would not tell you for the world and its fullness are mine. Do I eat the flesh of bulls or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving and perform your vows to the Most High and call upon me in the day of trouble and I will deliver you and you shall glorify me. That is God speaking.

That is our great King and you're listening to the For the King podcast. So each Wednesday, I'll have an episode with somebody I know or somebody I don't know that I just got to meet. But my guest this week is my buddy, Chris Anderson.

So we'll get to hear from him in a second. But I just want to do a quick reminder and set some context to what we're doing here. These Wednesdays are not explicitly theology or staying on task with scripture guiding us, although there will be scripture underpinning this episode.

These Wednesday episodes are to help us think about how we apply the gospel to our lives. The gospel is not just a message we believe in, but it's also a message in which we act out on our daily lives and then our daily insid decisions and inform those every single day. So that's what we're doing today.

And I read that scripture for a reason and that would come back up later in the episode. So I have Chris with me, my friend Chris Anderson. So hello, brother.

Good to speak with you. Good to see you, Rocky. There he is.

So real quick, because I mean, obviously me and you have a history. This guy discipled me, Chris discipled me back when I was getting my undergrad at Indiana University and has had a profound impact on my life. And God has used him in a great way.

A man that's discipled a lot of people and of the ministry we were part of called Chi Alpha. But I'm sure he'll bring that up in his history. So Chris, what is your background? What's your history? And then from there, can you tell us kind of what you're involved with now? And maybe they're kind of propel us into the rest of our conversation.

Yeah, absolutely. We have to share that. I just can't emphasize how excited I am to be on this podcast today, but I'm from Fort Wayne, Indiana.

As Rocky had mentioned, I was also at Indiana University having the great privilege of being able to just share truth with Rocky and to settle him during the freshman year. I think it was about 2016. Yeah, it's a small time ago.

Yeah, but I was there as an undergraduate. I got my bachelor's in psychology. And we were both a part of this campus ministry called Chi Alpha.

And during that time, I got it. I just didn't done a work in both of our lives, especially like in my heart with wanting to start a cycling team that would compete in the little 500 at Indiana University. It's a very historic race.

And we started a team just right from scratch. And I got to compete in it during the 2018 race. And luckily, I was continued my education in postgraduate work, where I got a master's in counseling, graduated 2020.

And then now I'm completing an MBA at the Kelly School, will be graduating 2022. And during that time, I've been able to just continue to invest in this little 500 team and make it a way for people to come to Christ through a fellowship program, as well as having it become like a full-fledged ministry within a four or five year period of actually reaching out to a little 500 cyclists because that's been such a very unreached area on our university's campus. So yeah, that's just been a little about me.

Like prior to that, I actually was a teacher student from this Christian school called Cedarville University, which is where I actually came to Christ when I was a college soccer player for two years. And the Lord just did some work in me to want to eventually come to IU for the purpose of sharing my faith with people on a very large university campus. We can go a little bit more into that later, but that's a little bit about me and just kind of giving you all context with why I might be on the show.

Yeah. And I got to kind of see, in terms of your reasoning, leaving Cedarville, coming to IU to proclaim the gospel, you never let off the gas pedal with that. So I obviously admire you for that.

And I think you've done a good job in terms of sticking to your convictions of why you were moving schools and what you were hoping to do. So yeah, thanks for walking us through that. So what we want to really gear this episode towards today.

So you've heard a little bit from Chris about who he is and what he's doing. And we're going to hone in on, like as a case study of living out your life as a Christian with him being a little 500 cycling coach and starting a ministry in that way. And it is appropriate to call it a ministry, although it's not a parachurch organization.

He didn't start a church, but I think we can still label it as a ministry because you're ministering to others, Christians, and then ministering by proclaiming the gospel to non-Christians in that same context. So I think we can label it a ministry and we're going to talk about the importance of doing ministry in your vocation that might not necessarily be considered, you know, "holy work," quote unquote, "holy work." So my next question for you, Chris, is how did you get into racing bikes and more specifically little 500? So you talked about how you've started that, maybe blow that up for us and expand it about the decision process. And you're saying that it's a good mission field there at IU.

It's a place where there were really many Christians stepping into that in boldness to proclaim the gospel. So can you walk us through that decision, how you got into it and racing bikes in general, but also more specifically little 500? Yeah, absolutely. So I think there's like really two halves to the story.

The first part is it's kind of like I gotta keep on talking about my experience at T-D So when I was there, I just wanted to go to that school for the sake of playing a college sport. That was my dream growing up because I'd played soccer my entire life. And there are things that, you know, I was really like in a place of humility where I was no longer the best player of my team.

I was no longer the person who was getting all the accolades and things like that. And I was kind of just in the mix as a utility player, per se. And a lot of the upper classmen and people on my team who weren't even like playing or had gotten hurt with injuries and things like that, they had this joy that was expressed so vividly in this contentment in their life that I had never really seen before.

And so just asking a lot of those questions and seeing them just like constantly talk about how Jesus is sufficient regardless of their circumstance, as well as that they can know whatever the role they were going to play on the team or whatever was going to happen in the sport itself. Like they know that they could honor God through it. And a lot of that led me to just come to faith in Christ during my freshman year at Cedarville.

And, you know, just being a part of a culture that was based on discipleship and having all the guys on the team really hold you accountable, not only as an athlete and like to work hard, but also to really being intentional in your faith and sharing it with others and using it as a vehicle for the gospel mission. Like really that prompted me to eventually ironically transfer from that school and head to IU to seek more of those opportunities. When I got to Kai Alpha, I just started learning about the culture of the university itself.

And one event that's just so popular is the Little Five Hundred. It's been widely attended since the late 60s and regularly has 20, 25,000 fans each year. And this is such a huge part of the university's identity.

And our team did not, our art ministry did not have a team. And a lot, in fact, like a lot of the people on staff as well as students who were in leadership, they'd always talk about how they never wanted to go to race students. They didn't really want to be a part of that, that part of the campus, like the, you know, accusing us being like the party scene and everything like that.

But in my head, it's just made a lot of sense to want to start something and want to get our fans and want to get people in the ministry part of this organization so that we could serve the great community, we could serve the people who are going to Little Five, we could serve in love on cyclists. And, you know, I was someone who never had cycling experience to begin with. And so, you know, that first, those first two years of, you know, developing a team and getting our resources and getting people on it just to ride the bike and kind of buy into what I was looking for.

And casting was extremely difficult, but God was faithful through it by allowing us to qualify for the race and getting people on the team who bought in. But really, like it was, the team's identity has been solely based on, so this is an opportunity for guys who want to grow in their faith and even like allowing guys on the team who were not originally Christians to come in and be exposed to what a true community is, as well as, you know, using our resources and honoring God through it and building this platform that can get us a lot of credibility to build relationships with other cyclists. So that was kind of the intentions behind it as well as like, you know, why did the sign is like take part in this venture? Yeah, that's good.

And, you know, I think Christians should have that mindset that they see a vacuum where there's not, where the gospel is not present, obviously, and we should go seek to fill it. And that's kind of, I think, what you're kind of laying out there. So I started off with that verse from Psalm 50 for a reason I talked about earlier.

And when you hear Chris walking through using this tool of cycling, and there's people that make the sport the in and of itself, like it's the goal. Like the championship is what I live my life for, getting first in little 500 or even just qualifying. That is the goal.

But, you know, what Chris is laying out is that that's not the goal. The goal is to raise up men that, you know, in the little 500, because Chris coaches a men's team that want to glorify God and know who Christ is and grow on that and then use it, you know, as a radiating tool. So I'm going to go through some verses that are going to, a little bit of exegesis and go through some verses about why we as Christians, if we apply the gospel properly, we ought to think the way that Paul and a few other writers are laying out to us.

So 1 Corinthians 10 31 is definitely going to be kind of the cornerstone one here. So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. The pastor is not the only one that can glorify God.

Chris Anderson is glorifying God by being a little 500 coach and leading that whatever you do, eating or drinking. Those are mundane tasks. You know, he's equating these mundane tasks with the ability to glorify God in that.

So that's the first one Colossians 3 17 and whatever you do in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God, the father through him. Continue on a little bit further in that same chapter of Colossians, whatever you do, work hardily as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord, you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

1 Corinthians 6 20 for you are bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. Psalm 34 3, this is David, Oh, magnify the Lord with me and let us exalt his name together.

And then from earlier, Psalm 50 15 and call upon me in the day of trouble. I will deliver you and you shall glorify me. And last but not least, as our Lord Jesus says in Matthew 5 16 in the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

So I don't know if Chris, you have any other verses you want to add, or if you want to do any commentary on those first before we get into this next question. So do you have anything to add or do you want to move on? So I mean, like in person, the theme of like doing all for the glory of God, I think just know when we look at first Corinthians 10 verse 31, and when it says, or whatever you eat or drink to all for the glory of God, just like to just point out like the all those verses that Rocky just mentioned, especially 10 verse 31. They aren't talking about the heart, like these things can be used, like anything has the potential to honor God any activity that we do anything that we get just the way that we handle ourselves and everything like that, like they can be used to honor God, or they can be used to dishonor God.

And that's just so important to understand is like, no, where's our hearts intentions given this activity? And is it really, it's been driving us towards God, in the sense that we were living in this freedom that we're not based, that's not based on our performance, and our identity is not wrapped around that? Or is it? You know, this scene is like constantly honored by us daily. And it's either life or death for us like that's those are the troubling situations that we can place ourselves in quite often. And so for me that the 10 verse first Corinthians 10 verse 31 is really just about like, you know, making sure that your your heart is trying to be in the right place at this at the right time, and always keep it in check with the Lord like, that your intentions are good with each activity they can do because they could either be very bad or, you know, very harmful for your spiritual walk.

Yeah. Yeah, I love you. I love you talking about the importance of the heart in the midst of that wanting to glorify God because you can do the exact same thing.

But if it's not from a heart to glorify God, it's not pleasing God anything not done faith, it is impossible to please God without faith, you know. Okay, so let's move on. So how you kind of walk through how that verse can fit into your sport and your they just a crisis the king and a quote unquote non church activity.

So what perspective should we have and in all in all we do, right? It is the glory of God, right? But can you walk us through more how that especially works out in the little 500 team, like you talked about discipling guys, you know, what are some like that might seem a little abstract to some people. So maybe can you bring that to earth? Can you ground it and make it some theological topic, but bring it to earth, you know, incarnate it here? Yeah, man. Absolutely.

So I mean, I kind of broke that same thing, like, you know, the way we can honor God, I broke it down in three ways. And like, by no means are the the only three ways you can honor God. I just it was good for my personal organization.

So like, one is just like honor the Lord in how you compete so you can continue to be like a white and salt in whatever space you're in. So for me, in that case, it's I'm, you know, I do my best not to know we're reacting in an ungodly way if something happens on the track or I'm not going to put my I'm not going to engage in like gossip and play it or to get different writers or different teams because I may not like something that they're doing or I'm gonna I'm not going to take shortcuts, they're not going to try to keep my way into advancing in a race or doing something like trying to bend the rules in little five because there's a lot of them there's a lot of temptation for people to just bend the rules and like with the gray areas, but like our team is really focused on trying to honor like all the things as well as honoring God with how we compete in that really that just that doesn't mean it's like a really either really strong or really weak witness that people can say okay, yeah, these guys are different and they compete differently than the rest of the field or like there's just like all that's like what makes their their message any better or whatnot. That's good.

The other the other one would just be like this idea of stewardship. Like stewardship just means like being honorable with your resources and preserving them for good purposes. So in our sense, we operate under a pretty tight budget financially in order to sustain our program but also just in terms of just like actually training we're gonna put in the time we're gonna put in the effort and to do whatever it takes to you know I guess like show God that we really appreciate what he's given us and we're gonna try to maximize and utilize those resources to the greatest ability and I think like stewardship in this case means like you're training just as hard as everyone else but it's not really for the purpose of winning.

I'm not saying that winning is it's something that we don't aim for because we do like that we want to win the race just as much as anyone else but it's not our ultimate hope our hope is in our our effort is really rooted in our love through the Lord and wanting to really just ride for him as a sign of appreciation and knowing that we can do that we're so blessed to be able to ride bikes and have the opportunity to do this at a college campus and this amazing race it goes really out of the gratitude rather than just an obligation and then like the other aspect that that I think is really important is probably the most significant in my eyes is um you know this platform that we're building you know if not I was looking through 1st Corinthians 9 verses 19 through 24 and you know especially the message is saying you know through the week I become weak that I might be weak I become all things all people that by all means I might save some I do it all for the sake of the gospel that I may share with them and it's blessings and you know Paul is talking about how it's important for us like if we're going to um uncharted areas um in the mission field we need to become like those we're trying to witness and that just builds a greater credibility and stronger relations that we can establish because we know where they're coming from in our area like building a platform also means just like showing that we care about the sport enough that we're going to change as much as everyone else and we're going to be at racism we're going to take this sport seriously and become cyclists so that we may be able to save cyclists at the same time and I think like that in itself just creates has created so many opportunities for us to just establish strong relationships with some with very competitive teams and other teams who may be struggling and having a part of our our gospel centered community um in discipleship so I mean those are just really the three areas that I see like this first being extremely prevalent in yeah no that's I yeah I appreciate you bringing that because I think that was great especially 1st Corinthians 9 that that is a great text for this and definitely prevalent so um maybe a few challenges that might come to some of the things you said that obviously aren't true but I'm gonna I'm gonna object to them as devil's advocates so that we can we can be clear in what we're saying oh ahead so becoming all things to all men um maybe just walk through how you remain distinctly a follower of Christ in the midst of that especially in you know the culture of little five might entail something like partying or maybe some you know sensuality things like that how do how do we remain our how do you guys specifically well what are some principles maybe you would lay out for remaining distinct in the midst of that that you that you might still walk with people that the gospel might go forth without compromising on the convictions that you hold as a follower of Christ right I mean in um probably the most prevalent that we could uh really think of is just how we're competing on the track and just like you know not putting all our um eggs in one basket per se yeah you know like just this event is just so it's so consuming and there's just so much uh there's so much opportunity or even temptation to just um not have balance in your life and placing all of your hopes and dreams in one event by um you know having that being the consumption of all your mind and what you're doing and what you're saying without you know and that can compromise the way that you're you're you're reading God's word or you know the way that you're in community with other people um in like a church or a campus ministry and things like that you know dude like there there are times where you know guys in the team it's like you know we struggle to like just go to like a kyle for service just because it's conflicted with track time and things like that and that's something that you know those those are things we have to continue to navigate and then I think also like um you can't avoid the nature of the party scene within little five itself and so um for us like we we try to take like good active steps and making sure that we're you know we're we're on in the Lord like you know with people of age like drinking alcohol for surf and like really making sure that we're we're conducting ourselves in a way that really honors him so yeah I mean there's just there are countless examples that really is just like you know were you putting your true hope in in competition is it really gonna weigh yourself are you really going to be weighed down that much because you don't win little five or is it gonna eat at you as if it was all your hopes and dreams to aim for and so we kind of just you know we try to keep very like light-headed and very positive on the track that also just um you know never letting get to the point where this is the only thing that really matters um yeah in our lives at all no I think yeah that's exactly what I was expecting you know I I just wanted to make sure that we're clear you know on how you guys are going about that just so people can get a little better idea you know um okay and then another thing that we could hit on real quick uh real quickly just and the nature of competition is that I might win and you might lose you know like that that's inherent in competition so uh in in what sense is competition godly I'm sure you've given this thought being a Christian that has done sports your you know whole life um so how do we fit that in in what way is competition godly what do you think yeah that's a that's a really good question um I mean I think competition is just I don't think there's there's anything inherently wrong with uh with wanting to win something or wanting it it's I I don't know I kind of take it in the same way of like being able to earn um earn a harvest and um or working a job and things like that like all those things are competitive there are people like you know if you're working for a company you're you're trying to use strategy in order to um yeah to make money and provide for your family and I kind of see very parallel very similar parallels with sports and competition in that way um you are you know you're working hard and wanting to earn a yield for that uh and there's nothing wrong with that either um so I don't think it necessarily has to mean that you um if you're not inherently harming someone because you want to beat them in a bike race or anything like that but it's just it's the manner in which you do that where you're not you're not um you're not taking like cheap shots at them or you're not cutting them on corners or um you know using felt player like trying to get illegal equipment in order to have like an added edge on your competition but it's just you know inherently and like it's just it's a way for us to just enjoy ourselves and really love love god I think he really created for a good purpose and for us to know enjoy him further so we kind of just taken under that approach more than anything else no yeah that's a great response it I think the word that I was thinking of in the midst of you talking about that is it just can't be vain the the pursuit of the the sport ought not to be vain but it the competitiveness aspect of it is not uh evil in and of itself it's not inherently evil but it's a tool obviously that can always be used for evil so I completely agree with everything out there and it makes sense likening it to just working hard to earn a salary to provide for your family it's the same same concept so I think that's a great response um so last question um as we're thinking about you know in light of first Corinthians 10 31 um is everything sacred just because a Christian is doing it um how do we think about this you know we have the secular sacred distinction that so many people think of is biking secular or is it sacred or is it sacred because a Christian is doing it or is it secular but the Christian in the midst of it is the sacred part of a secular activity that kind of thing how do we think about all that what do you think this is all I mean this is also a great question rocky that I had to take some time to write about um dude like it's tell me I think I don't even think it's like it's sacred I don't even think it's not really sacred based on who's doing it but who made it yeah like God's the one who made the sport God's the one who made competition he's the one who made like yep all the same system therefore and it it is inherently good yeah so um no I I think but but at the same time it just because one thing is good doesn't mean he's not necessarily beneficial for everyone per se like even for a believer like there are times where like you know if we look at this passage um with uh you know after 10 and first Corinthians like starting from like 23 to verse 30 that whole verse is talking about um it's talking about like inviting people to dinner and like um giving them food and offerings and um how like you have to sort of discern whether or not it's going to just cheer someone's conscience or not yeah and especially with the whole thing is speaking with or speaking on is is this going to overly consume someone's mind in their heart to distract them from who God is or is it going to bring God glory um by them and exuding this love and admiration for him so I think that's really the question there is um no like in terms of cycling I think it's it can definitely be good but there are people who put way too much emphasis and devotion towards that sport thinking it's going to be the end all be all for them when in fact it's not like they still have to ask the question of what happens after you die and what or you know what is my life meaning behind this so um no I think like cycling can definitely lead to those those questions of like purpose in what happens afterward but also um it's it's not necessarily like sacred based on who's writing but like you know who created the first one that's that's amazing yeah this is the Christian worldview I mean what you're presenting to us is the Christian worldview God created all things all good things are to be received with things they come from God and it's so wonderful a thought what you're saying um that at the end if a you know the Christian goes out and pursues a sport and excels at it and let's just say they win the championship after that they don't have to say what's next what's the purpose what's the meaning and that's where those questions come from sport is I've devoted my whole life to this and then it didn't fulfill it didn't satisfy and I'm left wanting more but the Christian can say I know that there already is more I wasn't even doing it for that in the first place I was doing it for Christ um and I just remember hearing Tom Brady after he wanted another uh bring Tom Brady's like you know the truth is I don't really you know this doesn't really bring me to that traction I don't I don't really know what it's for what the purpose is um and he's like one of the most decorated sports men in the world you know so right and I dude I have two thoughts with that too like this is so this is so prevalent with little five so I mean last year um there's a team who ended up winning the race um and you know they felt like they were the kings of the world for about um a week or two just um because there's so much the thing about this race that is so cool but also disheartening is the is just the um the honor that you received by winning it because it's so historical and it's such a difficult race to win you are in history books um but what happened afterward like those next few weeks is that there's just so much depression that happens and there's um all this withdrawal and um emptiness because what you just worked for for these past you know two or three years of dedicating yourself on the bike and you want for this one moment it's done and what else do you have left and then there's like the other aspect where um you know there's a common phrase in little five uh you know someone said it it was no one no one remembers second place yeah and you know like in my eyes yeah it's that may be true like I can't I couldn't tell you who won the second one second place 10 years ago for the but like that's not really the point like we're missed that appears for a little while and vanishes there's more to this like everything is toil under the sun yeah it's from ecclesiastes like we know that um this life is finite and there's there are more important questions to be asking and so you know if we have the opportunity to win it's gonna be uh it's gonna be god's will but also for us to like proclaim his truth in that our joy is complete is made complete in hand based on his accomplished work and like that's that's where like we're trying to get to as a team and like we're gonna wrestle with those things it's like tackling can be really funny can make great endeavors used for awesome gifts but at the same time like it's not what makes us who we are man like there's so many more eternal matters that are important here than just getting first place in this in this college race or any race in general exactly um yeah good point and and there is a race that we ought to run with all of our heart that we do want to win the prize and that is laid out in hebrews 12 one therefore since we are so yeah such a great cloud of witnesses let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles and let us run with perseverance the race mark out for us so there is a race my friends there's a race we ought to be running um and although you know little five isn't is it's just a shadow of that race it's a small shadow it is an analogy we can use and think of um so yeah i think that's a great response so thanks for walking us through that chris um so let's move on to our next question how has the 500 and the team helped you grasp the biblical truth that work is sacred and that we need christians proclaiming the gospel and all spheres of life has that come alive to even more and do you find yourself like uh more equipped to encourage your brothers and sisters of christ too they're like oh like i like reading my bible but somebody thinks i should be a pastor but i'm like a really good engineer you know would you feel more more like would you feel more equipped to say no no be an engineer do really good at that there are engineers that need to hear the gospel and you are the one that might go tell them right the pastor might not be able to contact that engineer um so yeah what do you think about that man i i love that um little side of the narrative that um often happens in uh in places man it's just i think i mean you and i have both probably experienced that some uh paper form of our lives as we're kind of growing in our in our walk and people have seen that we took an interest in understanding god's word the one thing i would probably say to that is you need to just look at um the 12 disciples and recognize that none of them or maybe a few of them were um actually in some sort of official um eldership or pastoral role within a church like most of them had been working as laymen and but they were still um you know the center of the the origins of the christian church and so to put that in perspective it kind of just shows us that you don't need to be a pastor in order to be proclaiming the truth like we all have that responsibility to make disciples of all nations and baptizing them in the name of the father son the holy spirit and that we need to be submitting to the authority of jesus christ um who's the head of the earth and the heavens um so i mean for for me that's just always been like a challenge because you know you do get those those questions as much as like that would be an honor like we have to just look at our hearts and see okay like is god leading me in this direction or is he done i think he gives us a lot of clarity with those uh with those things but is there's nothing inherently wrong with one in it to be an engineer versus being a pastor they're both great things it's just a matter of like where is god specifically placing you yeah no that's yeah i mean yeah we're on the same page with that that is part of the thing we've rehearsed as we come into this interview you know um right this is what we wanted to articulate um so yeah we can move on why why do you think we always hear the narrative that if you are a christian that is passionate about christ in this gospel that you must automatically be a pastor or do some type of ministry and even thinking about uh back to the ministry me and you were a part of in kai alpha they're always pushing people to go to be a campus missionary and training now by the end of when i was there they were doing a better job of saying if you're going to the workforce that's a good and godly thing you know i remember with hayden mills and the uh stone something was what was that ministry that helped equip people i can't remember hayden still so yeah so yeah those guys and uh i think they did a better job of that but i still do think there is this odd odd over emphasis of you know you need to go out and be a missionary and some obscure tribe in africa when there is when you don't even share the gospel here in the states with people that share your culture look like you speak your language and you won't even say the gospel here so why do you think that narrative is even there what do you think went wrong do you say any roots of maybe the last 50 years in american christianity what do you think i don't know what your thoughts are like yeah i mean there's there's so much into that um i can't actually speak with the whole um evidence of moral mission is because you know i think i think that does need to be um emphasized there's still so many um nations and tribes who don't have bibles written their own language and so that really should be um that should be something we continue to think to press upon people's hearts and i think it's not necessarily a pressure that they're wanting to do because it's what they want you to do it they want someone to go out and they're hoping that god eventually you know turns the hardest to some people who are in the crowd in the audience maybe want to pursue that so i don't necessarily see that as a bad thing but what i could say from just my experience um as it relates to um you know just like growing up in a like an intrusion high school that you know i i felt like i was giving not like pressure but a lot of just like a lot of pressing from my friends or pastures and stuff like that even just like myself to consider um like just like a pastoral occupation or um or something like that i i think what it comes down to is your your community like uh for me i didn't actually grow in or grow up in an environment where there are a lot of people um like me who are like really devoted to god's word especially when i got into college and came back to my hometown it just it just seemed like i was really one of few who were really like wanting to follow jesus and really understand that the depths of theology and things like that and what i thought was going to be oh like i'm about to be a pastor is more of just like a like a spiritual gift of knowledge and and wisdom that guided in part into me and this desire to just open the book but i think the other thing is like um we think that the prerequisite to be a pastor is just to read your bible want to really care for it but no let's think that that's something like all Christians should be doing on a regular basis and that's something that we should be hitting on more so and so i don't know for me it kind of just seems like um there are a lot of communities out there that aren't as necessarily pressed to getting people to read their bible and really knowing and delighting god's word the way that they ought to so that might just be a trend in itself but also just you know like an issue with human nature because we're so like this this whole society is very consumeristic um and it's it's nature and so you want the pastor to be able to tell you what the bible says without actually reading yourself and it's kind of like you know having the pastor chew up food and then you eating the rest of it you're not getting the full nourishment um so i don't know those are just my thoughts but it's something that i think about pretty regularly um and it's i don't know like i'd love to just engage more in those kind of conversations with people because i don't hear their thoughts yeah i think that those are those are really good thoughts um on this exact question i heard bode bacom that you like bode bacom right yeah oh yeah oh yeah bode bacom's one of my favorite pastors i mean he he is great um and he has uh if you go online you can look up on youtube that he's got a little sermon where he addresses this issue and the way he frames it you've probably heard it but the way he frames it in that video is he says oh you're you know you're a christian that reads your bible cares about theology loves the lord the lord jesus actually shares the gospel and lives out your christian convictions you're so different and other than us says the church you're so different and other we have to go send you to a seminary with the other people that care about jesus because frankly we don't that's how he phrases it so i think you're entirely right to say people have lost their virtue and the command for god uh from god to read his word to take up his word to mededict his word day and night it says it's all one um we've forgotten that command and because of that when we see a christian doing that because we're not living our lives as christians as we ought to we feel threatened and we say you must go away from us you're too you know you're too um obedient to what god's told us and and it's i think it's slightly convicting for those kind of people um so right and it's it is like it's like one of those scenes where um you know yeah like do we have to read the bible or is it do we read the bible yes i think they're like they're they're two different things man like uh like the bible says it is light in god's word in his instruction and you know like we we get to read god's word like he is placed in um he's he's placed in uh within us this understanding of who he is um the knowledge of his will and you know his plans for the rest of the rest of time in humanity and how he's going to restore the earth and make a new heavens and new earth like that dude like that's encouraging and knowing that we can personally know god on that level we can trust in his we can trust in the reliability of his instruction and knowing that it's for our good it's not just for him to have all this control in us and and make us into something that we don't want because like we want to know god we want to be more like him and therefore like this word is guiding us in that direction and it's something that we can we can genuinely enjoy and we get pleasure from so it's nothing that's you know i think like the duty of a christian is very important but that is from loving him too oh my goodness that was yeah that last statement the duty of a christian i've been learning so much about this concept of piety that um yeah it's kind of been lost on us that piety historically was always thought of as duty driven and this ties perfectly into the sport of cycling that it's your duty that when you are tired one day and you're like okay my legs hurt my hammies are done you know i i'm not i'm done right uh look you guys were having 100 mile days uh in texas this past week yeah we were at 400 miles this week yeah okay so that's a lot of work and and somebody could so easily wake up and say you know what i'm a part of this team it's my duty to go and do my job as the fourth man on the cycling team and then somebody they might say they might think because they feel bad that that trumps their duty and as christians we know we have a duty even though we might not feel like reading our bible it's our duty we're supposed to be duty bound to god and the word religion so many people say how i lost my religion found god religion actually means a binding the word religion literally means to bind so like we're duty bound to god because it's a certain thing so i just think it's a wonderful concept we've lost it and it's so it's so foundational to sport and specifically cycling right duty duty um to command and you as the coach giving those commands we're going to do this workout and do this and they obey the command right because they trust in their leader dude like i mean that's i mean even outside of just because there are some athletes like coach like outside of little five and even like within my team that probably wouldn't identify themselves as christians but you can still place those themes of of mission and no the asking yourself the why that you do something like the purpose behind it you don't have to write like no one's forcing you to ride like just because you're on a team you don't have to actually do the training you don't have to do these things if you don't want to but you can use the light in that that's something that you love you love cycling that much that you're going to put in the time and do that and i think the same way with our faith man like god gave us the ability to love him because we realized the depths of his love and in response we want to do things for him man it's it's uh we desire to read god's word but we also recognize that it is a duty um that we do but we take on that with the light because we love him because he loved us first and i think that you know those two are yeah they're not mutually exclusive and there's things that we have to both like um you know come to terms with every day and like man like my duty or as a coach or as a rider man it really sounds from the love i have for the people i coach and it's the love that that god has given to me that i'm able to pour into them and allow me to put in the time the effort to you know watch tape and do all the other stuff that's required um it it sounds from a love for them and also wanting them to come to know jesus in a more infinite way and sharing those values as well even if they're not necessarily christians and everything like that so i mean we have to just we have to place ourselves within like this this love and adoration for the father and letting that be the root of everything that we do that's where the whole you know doing all for the glory of god comes from man brother anderson okay now preach that was good uh thanks for walking through that um so you know as we wrap this up and finish up our conversation um let's let's move to our last question um what is the value of doing ministry where you are at and maybe as a caveat how do you think evangelism would look differently in america if christians proclaimed the gospel not just from the pulpit but when they went in to cycle or when they when they went in to work hard um for their sport or if and there are people i'm not saying nobody does this but i'm saying if christians in mass in swaths really believed what the bible says about the command to go and baptize the nations um and to do that at all times as we read in first first Corinthians 10 31 you know you know so what do you think the value is there and how do you think evangelism would look different and what do you think would happen especially in someone's life that they live like that what do you think as we finish up here and then and then bring it back to cycling obviously right man um you know i'm just like being involved in the community for the past few years and just talking with people who um who don't hold the same uh who don't walk with jesus and don't identify themselves as christians um i feel like the the big thing that i think they get really um they get really stuck on and um christians a lot of times like to tell you what they don't believe and they don't really tell you a lot about what they do believe yeah and it's it's always like what you're against like you're you're against these these things like does the bible call this sin well like what do you actually believe like what what is really the crux of all this what's the what's the basis for um for why you're against this but you're for this like who are you for especially and so we have to start with jesus in that for me that that starts with the relationships and you know play through those scenes of you know being someone who's consistently living out of that faith as well as you know answering the questions that i have or that cyclists have for me or people in my team have for me and allowing that allowing those seeds to continue to drop in ways and uh and god watering that one day and blossoming into something um in in producing face uh in that in that sort of way man's like um we are like in my approach has always been like not no one is ever too far off from god um because i was once so far away from him i don't deserve him in any shape or form and so therefore i can't tell i can't label someone as untouchable like i'm going to just pursue a relationship i'm going to drop those seeds in any way that i can and hope that god um makes something great out of it um while also like in terms of the evangelism part of it is like being consistent enough and you know manning a gospel explanation at the end of it um so i mean i hope that sort of like answers the question in my approach but man like it's all about the relationships all about being a consistent uh a consistent witness as well as telling people what you're who you're actually for rather than what you're against that's awesome yeah thank you brother thank you um so i think that's all we have um so do you have any final words anything you felt like maybe we uh we missed and if if so then you know you can speak about it but if not then um can you tell us how people can you know learn about what you're doing with little 500 learn about the team maybe financially support the team things like that how can they connect with you um and then maybe yeah things like that yeah so there um you know i think i said all i needed to say but i'd love to just um there there are two things we could definitely um ask our eye solicitations for help for so one is uh first and foremost like praying for the team and asking that you know god may be able to move in their hearts and move in the cycling communities cards because we know we haven't had the experience in the track the other one is to follow it's on instagram um it's at xa cycling and rock will put up the the details of that and then the third thing is uh not carefully considered financially giving to the team so we operate on our budget we're we are supported a little bit by kyle and we have a few sponsors but we're always looking for financial assistance with really big insignificant upcoming expenses uh that our teammates recover in terms of uh uniforms and the race entry fee and things of that matter and they are coming up and we will also send a link um down in the uh the home page of this podcast but um other than that man like i'm just so excited that they have they have the opportunity to be on this podcast and to just speak with iraq over this past hour it's been an amazing time good yeah uh yeah i thoroughly enjoyed it as two brothers it was good to speak with you um i will make sure to put all those links down there so you guys can have access to that um and i think we're good so i always end with first timothy 117 to the king of the ages immortal and visible the only god the honor and glory forever and ever amen solely video so so so so