Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Part 1)

Foundations of the Christian Faith — Steve Gregg

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Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Part 2)

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Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Part 1)

Foundations of the Christian FaithSteve Gregg

In this segment, Steve Gregg discusses the baptism in the Holy Spirit and examines the biblical terminology used to refer to this phenomenon. Gregg explores the common question of whether speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, and uses passages from the book of Acts to illustrate the relationship between the Holy Spirit and baptism. He also emphasizes the importance of seeking the truth about this topic from a Biblical perspective. Overall, Gregg provides a thought-provoking and informative discussion on the baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Transcript

For the past couple of sessions, we've been wading through the general topic of baptisms. It comes up as the third item in the list of six things in the book of Hebrews, chapter 6, that are called the foundation of faith toward God, excuse me, repentance from dead works, faith toward God, and the doctrine of baptisms. Now, repentance and faith, the items covered previously, are both things you do.

The doctrine of baptisms, obviously, is something to be taught. It's teaching, although it is also something you do. But the teachings about baptisms are many, really, and conflicting in the Church.

We have talked in the last two sessions about water baptism in particular. And it is that subject, probably, that comes to mind first when we think of baptisms. We think of baptism in water, and if we're acquainted with the variety of opinions out there, there's a great number of questions that need to be answered.

We sought to answer them biblically, most of the major questions, yesterday. And while more could be said, we must, in the interest of staying on schedule, move forward into another topic. But it's still under baptisms, because baptisms is plural.

And so far, we've only talked about water baptism. Now, of course, there's some reason to question, what did the writer of Hebrews have in mind when he chose to use the plural, and say, the doctrine of baptisms? My opinion is that he had at least water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism in mind. There may have been some other baptisms, but most likely, these two were the ones that were foremost in his mind.

I say that because of the general character of his list. Repentance, faith, baptisms is essentially a description of things as they occur in the life of the believer early on. He repents of his sins, he puts his faith in Christ, the next thing in the early church for that person to do is to be water baptized, and, in my understanding of things, Holy Spirit baptized.

Now, there was a distinction made, and very clearly and deliberately so, by John the Baptist. When he said, I baptize with water, but he that comes after me, the lachet of whose sandal I'm not worthy to unloose, he it is who will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire. And that was, of course, Matthew 3, 11.

And we talked about that verse, and particularly we looked at the question of what it means to baptize in fire. But we didn't discuss in detail what it means to baptize in the Holy Spirit. And this is deliberately framed, this statement of John's is framed to show there is something, there is a contrast between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism.

There are some, when they think of the expression, baptize with the Holy Spirit, remember that when they were baptized in water, in many cases, it was uttered over them, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And some have felt that this constitutes baptism in the Holy Spirit. I can remember, I'm not just coming out of left field with this, there's a particular person that I have discussed these matters with years ago at length, and this was his position.

He felt that he needn't be concerned about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, because when he was water baptized, the formula that was uttered was, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, he felt the mention of the Holy Spirit at the time of his water baptism was tantamount to, or equivalent to, being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I say that that position does not take careful consideration or careful attention to the words used.

To baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not the same thing as to baptize in the Holy Spirit, because the contrast that John makes is, I baptize in water. That is, water is the element into which I am immersing people. People are being dipped, immersed, overwhelmed by water in the process of being baptized in water.

But he that comes after will baptize in another element, not water, but in the Holy Spirit. And we are, I think, justified in concluding that there is a parallel drawn, that in some sense, being baptized in the Holy Spirit is analogous to being baptized in water, in that when you are baptized in water, you are immersed in water. When you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, you are immersed, as it were, or overwhelmed with the Holy Spirit.

Now, even if we conclude that, that still leaves a multitude of important questions unanswered, which we need to look at. If we are going to take a biblical approach to the doctrine of baptisms, we are certainly going to have to take a careful look at what is meant when the Bible uses the expression, baptized in the Holy Spirit. Now, the expression is not used frequently, but it is used more than once, which means it wasn't just an oddity that occurred in John the Baptist's teachings one time, and we might as well just put it behind us and figure it's just a Johannine the Baptist vocabulary term.

It actually is something that is repeated by Jesus and seemingly by Paul also. Though, as I said, it doesn't receive a lot of attention, that terminology, it is possible that the phenomenon under some other terminology receives a good bit of attention in the Bible. So, we need to ask ourselves, first of all, how is the terminology used in the Bible? Secondly, is there any other terminology that is used more frequently in the Bible which is talking about the same thing? And then there's a lot of other questions, like, what is the baptism of the Holy Spirit? Do all believers have it? Is it something that happens at conversion, in other words, automatically? And, of course, we cannot consider ourselves to have covered the subject without asking the question, is tongues the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? And we only bring that up because there's a fairly large segment in the body of Christ who would say that this is the case, that tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, so we need to examine that question.

Also, if you get baptized in the Spirit, does that guarantee you're a spiritual person? Does that guarantee that you are forever afterwards filled with the Holy Spirit because you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Then there's the final question that really relates to our next subject, the laying on of hands, and that is, is it necessary to receive it through the laying on of hands? I guess there's another question, too, and that is, if it were concluded that not all believers do have the baptism of the Spirit, then the question would be raised, how does one obtain the baptism of the Spirit if they do not already possess that? Of course, that would be a corollary of the conclusion of a previous question, that do all Christians have that? If all Christians are baptized in the Holy Spirit, then we don't have to ask separately, how do I, now that I'm a Christian, get baptized in the Holy Spirit? If the conclusion is, however, that it is a separate or subsequent experience, then it may be that I, as a Christian, should ask, well, if I perhaps don't have this, if I've not been baptized in the Holy Spirit, what do I got to do? How do you do it? What does it take? So these are the kinds of questions that are very germane to the issue. Some of them have become germane largely because of modern vogues and fads that need to be addressed. Part of it is simply questions that would arise just reading the biblical material on the subject.

Now, I mentioned John the Baptist's words. He's actually the first to use the expression, baptize in the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the second to use it.

In Acts chapter 1 and verse 5, in Acts, the first chapter and verse 5, this is prior to Jesus' ascending, but just prior, because he ascended immediately after this. The fifth verse, Jesus says, For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Now, as I recall, John's actual words were, he will baptize in the Holy Spirit.

I'm just double checking here. He will baptize you, no, with the Holy Spirit and fire. Okay, so we got the same terminology both from John and from Jesus.

Okay, Jesus repeats the terminology. He implies that it is something relevant to his followers. It is something he too contrasts with water baptism.

And it is something he said they could expect not many days from now. I think there is no one, no Bible scholar would disagree with the statement that the fulfillment of this promise is found in Acts chapter 2. And in verse 4, it says, They were all filled with the Holy Spirit. All right, now, not all agree about the questions that I raised earlier and their answers.

We'll talk about those, but I don't think there is anyone who would disagree that when Jesus said, You will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. He was referring to the event that actually transpired in the next chapter of Acts, in Acts 2 and verse 4, when they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. In fact, this is a guide to us to discover whether there is any synonyms or other terms that mean the same thing.

Because Jesus said, You will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And then when it actually happens, it says, They were filled with the Holy Spirit. So, in some sense, apparently, being baptized in the Holy Spirit is used either interchangeably, or at least the terminology overlaps with the expression to be filled with the Spirit.

Well, we'll talk about that some more later. The only other place I'm aware of where the expression baptized in the Holy Spirit or something very close to it is used is in Paul. In 1 Corinthians 12 and verse 13, Paul says, 1 Corinthians 12, 13, Paul says, For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Now, the terminology in this translation is not identical. It doesn't say you've been baptized with the Holy Spirit. It says you've been baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Nonetheless, we find the term Holy Spirit and the word baptized in close proximity here, sufficiently to render it probable that we're talking about the same thing here. Since the word baptized appears, and since the word Holy Spirit is closely affiliated with it here, most, I think, perhaps all, I don't know if everyone agrees with this, but I think most would agree, and I certainly would, that it is safe to say Paul is talking about the same thing. That Jesus and John speak of as being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

He says we have been baptized by one Spirit, by the Holy Spirit, into one body. Now, this verse in particular is interesting because it provides us a major key, at least in the thinking of some, a major key to the question of whether all Christians have been baptized with the Spirit. Because the statement Paul makes here certainly gives that impression.

If you have come into the body of Christ, one might deduce from this scripture, you have only come into the body of Christ because the Holy Spirit has baptized you into the body of Christ. And therefore, one might consider it right to say that if you are a Christian, if you are in the body of Christ, then you have had this experience of which Paul speaks, which he considered that all his readers had shared in. And this is a principal passage in my, if I understand correctly, in the argument that suggests that all Christians have been baptized in the Spirit.

But there are arguments on the other side, and we need to weigh the two against each other. We are not going to just try to see which position has the most scriptures in its camp, but of course, whatever the truth is, must agree with all the scriptures relevant to the topic. It is not enough for us to say, well, on this side of the argument, there are XYZ scriptures, and on this other side of the argument, there are ABC scriptures, and they are irreconcilable, so I just pick which scriptures I prefer to pay attention to and which ones I prefer to ignore.

You cannot do that. The whole counsel of God is God's self-revelation of his truth, and therefore, whatever the truth is, must agree with everything God has said on the subject. Therefore, we cannot simply say, well, we have more scriptures on this side than on that side, so we will ignore the side that has fewer scriptures and go with the one that has the most scriptures, or whatever.

Of course, we need to find some answer that agrees with all the scriptures on the subject. So these are the passages that speak of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, or baptized by the Holy Spirit, or baptized with the Holy Spirit. These are the few passages where that terminology is used.

That is three witnesses. That certainly is enough to establish it as a normative teaching of the New Testament. First John the Baptist, then Jesus, then Paul mentions it.

But it is my thought that the baptism of the Spirit is spoken of more frequently than this in the Bible, but under other terminology. And most of that terminology, I think, is going to be found in the book of Acts. Now, in the book of Acts, we have a sketchy record of some of the things that happened in the first 30 or so years of the early church.

From the time that Jesus rose from the dead until Paul's imprisonment in Rome was probably approximately 30 years. So in 28 chapters, we have the space of 30 years of amazingly active Christian outreach and experience and so forth. It's quite clear that in having, on the average, less than one chapter per year, and each chapter is devoted to usually one little thing, a lot of things happen that aren't recorded in the book of Acts.

We have only a selective sampling of some of the things, some of the significant things that happened during those 30 years. Such things as Luke felt were the major turning points and important factors. Now, that means that we're not going to see everything there that happened.

But we do find in the pages of the book of Acts five different occasions in which persons apparently, we'll have to discover whether this is true or whether it's only apparent, but where persons apparently received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. All right. There are five different cases that are on record.

Now, as I said, this is a very selective sampling. No doubt there were hundreds of cases that actually happened, but the record has only preserved five of them. And it may also be that there are other cases that did not conform at all to the record as we have it here.

I mean, each case is a little different than every other case. And that being so, there might be any variety of other cases that were never recorded. And so we can't really look at something that happened in Acts and say, well, this is normative.

We can't say, well, this is how it happened to the apostles, or this is how it happened in the house of Cornelius, or this is how it happened in the life of Saul of Tarsus. And say, therefore, because it happened to him that way or to them that way, it must necessarily happen to everybody that way. We would have to have a comprehensive record of every time it ever happened and see some pattern of an unchanging principle in order to say it must always happen such and such a way.

And we don't have that. But we do have anecdotal information in the book of Acts. We need to be very cautious about saying anything about how much of any given circumstance is to be regarded as normative.

That is to say, the way all Christians should do it. But the fact that we can't do that exactly doesn't mean we shouldn't look carefully at the data. There is much to be learned from it.

The first instance that is recorded is in Acts chapter two, and we mentioned it a moment ago. In Acts chapter two, in verse four, to the gathered hundred and twenty believers in the upper room above the temple, the Holy Spirit came with both an audible and a visible accompaniment. There was a sound of a mighty rushing wind.

There was the appearance of tongues of flame on the heads of the worshippers. And also there was a further audible sound, and that was that they spoke with tongues. Now, the significant thing is in verse four, they were all filled with the Holy Spirit.

And as I said, there can be little doubt that this is what Jesus was predicting in the previous chapter when he said, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. So they were filled with the Holy Spirit. This is the first instance we read of someone being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

The second and the third instances will pass over for a moment and we'll come back to them. I'd like you to look at the fourth instance with me, which is in Acts chapter ten. This was the household of Cornelius.

In Acts chapter ten, Peter was preaching to a gathered group of Gentiles in the home of a centurion named Cornelius. And if we would begin reading at verse forty-four, it says, While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished as many as came with Peter because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, Can anyone forbid water that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. And they asked him to stay a few days.

Now, when he talked about this the next day, or a few days later, I should say, when he got back to Jerusalem, in Acts chapter eleven, Peter's talking about this event. And in Acts eleven, fifteen through seventeen, Peter was talking and defending his actions of going in the house of a Gentile. He said, And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them as upon us at the beginning.

Obviously referring to Pentecost. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Now, I mentioned that only Jesus and Paul had used the expression.

Here, Peter uses it, but he's simply quoting Jesus. And he says, If therefore God gave them the same gift as he gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God? Now, what I want you to see in these passages, both of them describing the same event, is the admixture of synonymous terminologies for the same experience. There can be little doubt that what happened in the household of Cornelius that is here described is properly called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Why? Peter understood it so. When it happened, he said, Oh, I remember that Jesus predicted this. Jesus said, You'll be baptized with water, or John baptized with water, you'll be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

And so he obviously identified what happened in the household of Cornelius with this same thing that is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But he also used some synonymous terms in the discussion of it. In the description of it in chapter 10, it says, for example, in verse 44, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.

The Holy Spirit came upon them. Now, keep your finger there for a moment and go back to Acts chapter 1. In Acts chapter 1, in verse 8, in Acts 1.8, Jesus was still speaking to his disciples just before his ascension. He said, But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

This expression, the Holy Spirit coming upon them, was obviously the same thing he referred to in verse 5 as being baptized with the Holy Spirit. And the same thing that happened in verse 4 of chapter 2, which was called being filled with the Holy Spirit. In Acts 1, verses 5 and 8, and then taken that together with Acts 2.4, we find at least three terms that are either synonymous or overlapping in meaning.

Okay? Baptized with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came upon them. And, of course, being filled with the Spirit.

Now, back to Acts 10 again. In verse 45, it said, And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. This pouring out on.

Now, you remember on the day of Pentecost, when they were all filled with the Spirit, Peter said, This is that which Joel spoke of. When Joel said, In the last days, saith the Lord, I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. So, again, pouring out the Spirit upon them was another synonym for what took place on the day of Pentecost, along with the others.

Notice also in the verse we just read, Acts 10.45, this was called the gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit. And, in keeping with the idea of a gift, in verse 47, it says, These have received the Holy Spirit, just as we have, at the end of verse 47.

Acts 10.47. They have received. That's what you do with a gift. The Holy Spirit is here spoken of as the gift.

And they have received the Spirit, the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now, here are the synonyms. And, by the way, some of these terms come up again in chapter 11 in the passage we were reading.

In chapter 11, verse 15, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, he says. In verse 16, he refers to this as being baptized with the Spirit. And, in verse 17, he says this is the same gift that he gave us.

So, the gift of the Spirit, the Spirit coming upon them, or falling upon them, or being poured out on them, the receiving of it, of this gift, and the baptism of the Spirit, and from Acts 2.4, being filled with the Spirit, these are all terms that are used quite interchangeably, it would appear. Or, at least, quite closely connectedly. So, we have two cases where the Bible identifies events that are specifically called being baptized in the Spirit.

Acts 2.4, which Jesus predicted in the terms you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And, now, Acts 10, with the household of Cornelius, where Peter said this too was the same phenomenon, as happened in Acts 2. So, here's two cases that we cannot deny, cannot doubt, that we're talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit in these two cases. There are three others where, in all likelihood, we should also use the same, we should identify them as the same phenomenon.

If you go backwards a couple chapters to Acts 8, this is the story of how Philip, because of the persecution of the church in Jerusalem, one of the seven deacons named Philip fled, and he migrated to the northern regions, northern from Galilee up to Samaria, and he was apparently the first to minister to Samaritan people. And the gospel was received by them, and there was great joy, they were baptized in water and so forth. Now, the apostles heard about this, and it says in Acts 8.14, Now, when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

There's that same expression again. These people had received the word of God, they had been converted, it would seem, baptized in water. Now, the concern was that they might receive, obviously, the gift of the Holy Spirit, which has been used interchangeably with the expression baptism of the Spirit in the other passages.

For as yet, he had fallen upon none of them. Notice, there's that expression too, fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, which is the normal apostolic practice.

In other words, they had been baptized in water, but they hadn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money and so forth.

We don't have time to take that whole story, fascinating as it is, but we see that the Samaritans now also received the same phenomenon, the gift, or the Holy Spirit came upon them, that which is elsewhere equivalent to the baptism of the Spirit. This was administered through the laying on of hands in this case, not in the other two cases we've read of. Not in Acts 2 nor in Acts 10 was the laying on of hands administered, but here we see that that is the means that it happened in here.

Going to the next chapter, we have the conversion of Saul of Tarsus in chapter 9 of Acts. And after he was converted, he was blinded for three days. He went to Damascus where he prayed and fasted and so forth.

And finally, God sent a man named Ananias to him. In verse 17, Acts 9, 17, Ananias went his way and entered into the house, and laying his hands on Saul, said to him, Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road as you came has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales.

He received his sight at once. He arose and was baptized. So when he had received food, he was strengthened.

Then Saul spent some days with his disciples in Damascus. Now here the expression is that you might be filled with the Holy Spirit. We don't read of the Holy Spirit coming upon him or receiving the gift, or we don't read of the expression baptized in the Holy Spirit, but we do read of him being filled with the Holy Spirit, the same expression that was describing what happened to the disciples at Pentecost in Acts 2. Furthermore, we see the additional sign of the laying on of hands here.

He laid hands upon him. Now that could have been for the healing of his blindness principally. Although in the previous chapter the laying on of hands was associated with administering the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and since the term filled with the Spirit here is used, there is perhaps some grounds for saying what happened to Saul on this occasion by the laying on of Ananias' hands was another instance of the same phenomenon.

Here he was baptized in the Holy Spirit. There may be some question about it here because the expression filled with the Spirit in some places in the Scripture does not apparently, is not synonymous with baptism of the Spirit. We'll talk about that later, but it is synonymous in some cases, as in Acts 2.4. And here we have the laying on of hands plus the reference to him being filled with the Spirit.

It would seem to me justified to say this was the same phenomenon occurring in the life of Saul, later known as Paul. Now, Acts 19 is the last of the places in the Bible of which we read of this phenomenon happening to anybody. Acts 19, the opening verses, It happened while Apollos was at Corinth that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus.

And finding some disciples, now by the way, the word disciples ordinarily in the book of Acts is a reference to Christians. However, it becomes plain as this story unfolds that these were not Christians. They were disciples of not Jesus, but of John the Baptist.

Nonetheless, they're simply called disciples. He said to them, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? So they said to him, we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit. He said to them, into what then were you baptized? They said, into John's baptism.

Then Paul said, John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him who would come after him. That is, on Jesus Christ. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them. And they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Now, the men were about twelve in all.

Here we have, I think, ample evidence that what is happening to these people by the laying on of Paul's hands is the same phenomenon as occurred in Samaria by the laying on of Peter and John's hands. The Holy Spirit came upon them, a word that we've already seen associated with baptism of the Spirit. He has spoken of them receiving.

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? They hadn't heard of the Holy Spirit. He said, well, what were you baptized into then? One might suggest that that question, what were you baptized into then, if you've never heard of the Holy Spirit, then what were you baptized into, might suggest that Paul would have thought ordinary Christians were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and therefore would know such a thing as the Holy Spirit existed. However, that may not be that much support for the use of that formula, since Paul later in the passage we just read baptized in the name of Jesus.

We don't baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but as we said previously, I think the two formulas are interchangeable and both valid biblically. But anyway, what we have here is another instance. These people apparently were not saved prior to Paul finding them.

He had to explain to them who Jesus was, and then, of course, they received Jesus. They did so because they had already followed John the Baptist, and when they heard that John had pointed out Jesus as the one greater than he, and that people should believe in him, they immediately did what their master would have recommended and received Jesus, were water baptized, and with the laying on of hands received the Holy Spirit coming upon them. Now, these are the five instances.

We've taken some time to belabor the description of them in detail. And the reason is, in answering all the questions that I raised earlier, we're going to have to lean fairly heavily on this anecdotal information. When we ask about the role of laying on of hands, or the role of speaking in tongues, or whether all Christians have this, these kinds of questions we raised and that we hope to answer, we're going to have to come back to these stories again and again.

So, I wanted you to be familiar with the whole picture. You've got the first cases in Acts chapter 2, the day of Pentecost. Chronologically, the next instance was in Acts 8, in Samaria, Philip's converts, when Peter and John came down.

Chronologically, the third was Acts 9, when Saul of Tarsus was converted and Ananias came and ministered to him. Next was the house of Cornelius, Acts 10. And finally, Acts 19, these 12 men whom Paul encountered in Ephesus, who apparently were not Christians prior to his coming, became Christians, and we find a description of their receiving the Holy Spirit too.

This is, I think we could say, all the passages that really address the subject directly. I may be wrong. There may be some others.

You see, there's many other places in the Bible that talk about the Holy Spirit, but not in the terminology we're talking about here. Whether everything that is ever said about the Holy Spirit is a reference to the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a matter of dispute. I'm not convinced that it is so.

So we come to the question of what is the baptism of the Holy Spirit then, and this is no doubt the first logical question to raise and to seek to answer. I will give you my understanding of this. I want you to know, first of all, that some of the questions that we will be looking at are not universally held, even in this school, even among our staff.

You are at liberty to disagree with my conclusions. You may hear other conclusions from other teachers that you'll hear here, and that's all right. There's no conflict between us and those of us who hold different opinions on this.

As a matter of fact, as I hope to show, I think the differences are more semantic than real in the way that these views are held. But nonetheless, we'll check this out. Look at John chapter 14 with me.

John 14, verses 15 through 17. Jesus, of course, is in the upper room with the disciples giving a lengthy discourse, the most lengthy discourse on record from him. And in the midst of that, he says this, and many other times in the whole discourse he repeats similar statements.

If you love me, keep my commandments, and I will pray the Father and he will give you another helper that he may abide with you forever. The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Now, it's this last line that I would like to draw your attention to. Jesus, as he said in the upper room with his disciples, said that the Holy Spirit was with them. He said, he is with you, but he will be in you.

Now, it's not certain exactly in what sense Jesus meant it when he said the Holy Spirit is with you. I think it probable, though there is another possibility, I think it probable that he meant that the Holy Spirit who was in Jesus was with them. And that as long as Jesus was with them, the Holy Spirit was with them and they know him.

You know him because he's with you. That is, to my mind, the most probable explanation of how he meant that when he says you know him because he's with you. It is also possible, can't be ruled out, that what he meant is the Holy Spirit, even separate to and outside of Jesus himself, is with them.

In the sense that they have been drawn to Christ. They've been convicted of their sins. They have been convinced of sin, righteousness and judgment, which is what the Holy Spirit does to the world, convinces the world of these things.

They have been impressed. They've received revelation from the Holy Spirit. Peter said, you are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus said, flesh and blood did not reveal that to you, but my Father did, clearly through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, no one can come to me except the Father who sent me to draw him, in John chapter 6. And that drawing I take to be through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, it could be said in another sense that the Holy Spirit was with them.

And that they knew his presence because he had been actively at work upon them, in one sense, in convicting them, in revealing to them who Jesus was, in drawing them to Christ. And this work of the Holy Spirit goes on still with all persons who eventually become Christians. If you came to Christ, it's because the Holy Spirit who was with you, that is, he was present, was working upon your consciousness, not on your conscience, in order to attract you to Jesus, to convict you of your sins, to convince you that Jesus was your only hope and your only answer, and you would never have been converted had not the Holy Spirit worked upon you in this way.

That could be what he means when he says the Holy Spirit is with you. But he is obviously contrasting this with something else that was yet future for them. He says, he will be in you.

Now, of course, the question arises, when did he come to be in them? One possibility is, of course, that he's predicting what happened on the day of Pentecost. We've already seen that on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, 4, it says they were filled with the Holy Spirit, and it is possible that this is the first time that he came to be in them. And therefore, Jesus, when he said he shall be in you, on this interpretation would simply be talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which they later experienced at Pentecost.

That's one theory, one belief, one possibility. Another possibility, and I might as well tell you this is the one I lean toward myself, is in John chapter 20, after Jesus rose from the dead, and the very day that he rose from the dead, that evening he appeared in the upper room to his disciples, Sam's Thomas, Thomas was not there, but the others were there. Judas, by the way, was not there either, but there were ten of the twelve there that day.

And in John 20, and in verse 22, while Jesus gathered that resurrection eve, or resurrection night, I should say, with his ten disciples, it says, when he had said this he breathed on them and said to them, receive the Holy Spirit. Now the meaning of this action is nowhere explained. It's rather mysterious, really, because one could say he did not at this moment impart the Holy Spirit to them.

He knew they were going to receive the Holy Spirit at the day of Pentecost, and here he was simply exhorting them to be receptive, so that they could receive the Holy Spirit, you know, some days hence, when they would be baptized in the Spirit. I think, however, there not being any explanation of this, other than the description of the event itself, I think, to my thinking, it seems that he imparted the Holy Spirit to them at that moment, when he breathed on them. There seems to be little reason to mention his breathing on them, or for him to even do so.

There's no mention elsewhere in the Bible of him doing something like that. I mean, he did spit in the eyes of blind people and other weird things like that, but never did he breathe on anyone, as far as we know. And the fact that he did so on this occasion, and accompanied this act of breathing on them with the command, receive the Holy Spirit, I'm, I don't know, that just speaks to me subjectively as if he did, if they did receive the Holy Spirit in some sense, when he breathed on them.

And it is my opinion that when this happened, that fulfilled the prediction he'd made that we read a moment ago in John 14, 17, the Holy Spirit will be in you. He came to be in them at that time. I am of the opinion that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them.

Okay? But the question then is, is that to be identified with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or is it something else? Now we turn back to Acts chapter 1, just a page further than where you are now. And Jesus has breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit. By the way, you may be aware the word breath and spirit are the same word in the Greek.

Pneuma is translated variously as breath or wind or spirit. So when he breathed on them and said receive the Spirit, there is obviously something, a very close connection between his breath and spirit, since it's the same Greek word that designates both. Okay? He inspired them.

He inspirited them, I think. Now, when you come to Acts 1, 8, a verse we looked at a moment ago, he says, but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you. Now, two things to observe immediately here.

First of all, he is talking to the people he already formerly breathed on. Unless, of course, these words are directed to those in the crowd who had not been among those ten in the upper room. It is possible that this did not apply to those ten who had already received the Holy Spirit and that this was a larger group now, and he was speaking concerning those who had not been present six weeks earlier when this happened, or eight weeks earlier, or whenever it was.

I guess it was some weeks earlier. Anyway, the point is, it seems as though he is talking at least to the same people and maybe others as well, and saying the Holy Spirit has yet to do something else with you. He has yet to come upon you.

Now, the other thing I would like to point out is that he uses a different preposition here, upon, rather than in or with, which he used previously. This may be not significant, but it might be. Words have meaning, although some different words have the same meaning.

Different words sometimes have different meanings, and so we might as well take a look at this fact. Prepositions are words in the language that describe a relationship. The Christian life is a relationship with God through the Spirit, or a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Relationships are of different types. If I told you that I am standing behind this pulpit, the word behind is a preposition. It describes my relationship to the pulpit.

If I said, I am standing before you, that is true. Before is a different preposition. It speaks of a different, I am in relation to you differently than I am in relation to the pulpit.

There are any number of ways we could talk about this. I could say, I got here before you did. Again, before is a preposition.

It has to do with a chronological relationship to my action and your action. But, prepositions are words that describe relationships. When Jesus said, the Holy Spirit is with you and shall be in you, it is very clear that he had two different relationships in mind.

Therefore, two different prepositions had to be used to describe it. The question now is, when he adds a third preposition, the Holy Spirit now has to come upon you. That is different than with and in.

Upon is a different word. It is possible that when the Holy Spirit came in them, he also came upon them. Though there are two different words, it is speaking of the same phenomenon.

That is not out of the question. But, the way I have, at least to this point, understood the act of breathing on them that Jesus did back in John 20, 22. I have understood that to be the fulfillment of his promise that the Spirit would come in them.

He now speaks to them and says, yet the Holy Spirit has yet to come upon you. I would therefore incline to the view that there are three separate relationships with the Holy Spirit that are spoken of in these passages. There is that of the unbeliever who is being drawn to Christ.

We could say the Spirit is with him, but not yet in him. That is a relationship, but not an intimate one. Then, there is the relationship of the person who has had the Holy Spirit come in to him.

This is the person who has become a Christian. The person who has been converted. It is my understanding of the Scriptures that every Christian has the Holy Spirit in him.

That seems to be explicitly declared to be so. In Romans chapter 8, it would be hard to get around this particular statement. Romans 8, 9 says, but you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Now, if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Now, Paul uses the terms Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ interchangeably in this verse. He says, if the Spirit of God dwells in you, and if the Spirit of Christ does not dwell in you, if you do not have the Spirit of Christ, you are none of his.

You are not a Christian, because that is what gives definition to the Christian life. It makes it distinctive. It is not just a life lived differently than other lives.

It is a different life. Because it is a different spirit. It is spirit, not flesh.

And anybody who has not received the Holy Spirit in the sense of the Spirit coming in them, is simply not a Christian. If you do not have the Spirit of Christ, you are not one of his people. Now, notice he says in that verse, if the Spirit of God dwells in you.

And he equates it with having the Spirit of Christ. If a person has the Spirit of Christ, this is synonymous to the Spirit of God dwelling in you. So, I think we can say on biblical authority that every Christian who is genuinely saved, has the Spirit of God in them.

There is additional support for this idea in the first epistle of John. In John chapter 3, verse 24, 1 John 3, 24. John says, now, he who keeps his commandments abides in him, and he in him.

That is, Jesus is in that person. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. Now, we have the Spirit, and the presence of the Spirit is how we can know that he abides in us.

Jesus abides in us by his Spirit. It is not the flesh and blood resurrected man Jesus who is inside of you. He is at the right hand of God the Father.

The Bible indicates that is where he is going to stay until all his enemies have been put under his feet, and then he is going to come back here. The man Jesus in his flesh and his bones, who has come out of his grave, ascended into heaven, and he is still there at the right hand of God, but he dwells in us through his Spirit with whom he is one. And this is how we know that Jesus is in us, only in this, that he has given us his Spirit.

That is the proof. So, there would certainly be an underlying assumption here, that every Christian who has Jesus in him, has obviously the Holy Spirit in him. Now, there is another verse, and this is in the next chapter.

Verse 13, 1 John 4, 13 says, By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. Now, these verses clearly state that if a person is a genuine Christian, that Christ abides in him, in the person of his Spirit. The Spirit is in you, if you are a Christian.

And when the Bible says Christ is in you, this is simply the same thing as saying his Spirit is in you. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. So, I am of the opinion, at least, that in John 20, 22, when Jesus breathed on the disciples, the Spirit came to be in them.

They were, they became Christians, they became regenerated. That is at least the position I have come to at this present juncture. There are other intelligent opinions contrary to this, but I am just giving you my reasons for what I see.

I am going to give you the reasons for other opinions as well in a moment. Let's go to Acts 1 again. We see then, that to these persons, Jesus says again in Acts 1, 8, you will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you.

Now, this expression, the Holy Spirit coming upon a person, need not be equated with the Holy Spirit being in them. After all, the Holy Spirit came upon many people in the Old Testament who did not have the Holy Spirit in them. Do you know there are some people in the Old Testament of whom it is said the Holy Spirit was in them? It was said of Daniel that the Spirit of the gods, this is Nebuchadnezzar's observation, the Spirit of God was in him, and he was of an excellent spirit.

And, no doubt, the prophets, when they prophesied, at least the Holy Spirit was in them. Yet, the Holy Spirit came upon Saul, the king, who was never regenerated. The Holy Spirit came upon other persons who may not have ever been regenerated.

Not only good people had the Spirit come upon them. Saul, when he was chasing David to kill him, was clearly not God's man at that moment, and yet the Holy Spirit came upon him and he prophesied. So, the experience of the Holy Spirit coming upon a person is not necessarily synonymous with the Holy Spirit dwelling in a person.

Now, in the Old Testament, whenever the Holy Spirit came upon someone, there was always some kind of a manifestation of God's power. It was normally, more often than not, it was normally through prophesying. The most common manifestation that the Holy Spirit had come upon a person in the Old Testament was that they prophesied.

There were other manifestations, however, more rare. For example, Samson. When the Spirit of God came upon him, he seemed to have supernatural strength.

But there was a manifestation of supernatural power. In fact, the Bible in the Old Testament never mentions that the Holy Spirit came upon someone except as an explanation of how it was that they did whatever is next described. That they prophesied, or Samson killed a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass, or whatever.

We sometimes think of Samson as this big, muscular Arnold Schwarzenegger kind of a guy. But I seriously doubt it. The Bible indicates it was not through muscle power that he did his feats.

His muscles may or may not have been enlarged. It's irrelevant. Certainly there's no reason to believe he was a Superman-looking kind of a guy.

His enemies were willing to pay a fair amount of money to figure out what the secret of his strength was. It would have been obvious if he had looked like Arnold Schwarzenegger. There's no secret, you know, how this guy does the things he does.

He's a monster, you know. But if he was an ordinary-looking guy, but when the Spirit of God came upon him, he did extraordinary things, that would explain why it was so mysterious to his enemies. How does this guy do those things? What's his secret? Anyway, I think that's likely to be the case.

God usually uses the weak things of the world to confound the strong. So that no flesh would glory in his sight. I think probably Samson might have even been an unusually weak person, at least morally.

I don't know about physically. When the Spirit of God did not come upon him, but when the Spirit came upon him, there was strength, there was power. And that's what Jesus says to his disciples.

You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. Now, it would appear that while the Bible teaches that all Christians have the Spirit in them, it would appear to be a different question. It may have the same answer, but it would at least be a separate question, whether all Christians have had the Spirit come upon them and manifest the power that is always associated with that phenomenon, which is in Acts chapter 1 identified with being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Is the baptism of the Spirit the same as conversion, or is it subsequent, or is it a separate thing that frequently happens at the same time, or what? How do we connect these two things? The Holy Spirit comes in a person at conversion, and they receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon them. Let me show you just a minute before we seek to answer this question any further another bit of interesting Old Testament background on this. Look at Numbers chapter 12, I think it is.

If it's not, I'll let you know. It might be chapter 11. Yeah, it is.

It's chapter 11, I'm sorry. Numbers 11. Moses on this occasion complained that he had too much of a burden that God had given him in caring for all these complaining people.

And so God said, well, you do have a bit of a problem on your hands. Tell you what. Gather 70 elders of the people, gather them to the tabernacle door, and what I'll do is I'll take some of the spirit that is upon you, the anointing that Moses had, and I will put it and distribute it on these 70 men also so that they will share the burden.

There always comes a burden along with the anointing for ministry. I'm not sure why anyone wants it. But anyway, they shared the burden.

And so we read of the fulfillment of this in verse 25. Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him and took the spirit that was upon him and placed the same upon the 70 elders. Notice upon, upon.

And it happened when the spirit rested upon them that they prophesied, although they never did so again. And two men had remained in the camp. The name of one was Eldad, the name of the other was Medad.

It doesn't say so, but I'm quite sure their father's name was Dudad. And the spirit rested upon them. Now look, these guys, it says now they were among those who were listed among the 70, but who had not gone out into the tabernacle.

So they were in the wrong place when the spirit fell upon them. And they were kind of breaking protocol here. Yet they prophesied in the camp.

And a young man ran and told Moses and said, Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp. So Joshua, the son of Nun, said, Moses, my Lord, forbid them. But Moses said to him in verse 29, Are you zealous for my sake? Oh, that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them.

Notice in Moses' thinking, being a prophet and having the spirit upon one were the same thing. Now, of course, a passage with which all Charismatics are familiar, and Pentecostals and probably most non-Charismatics as well, is in the book of Joel, which is just before the book of Amos. In the book of Joel in chapter 2, it says in verse 28, It shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh.

Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. Your old men shall dream dreams. Your young men shall see visions.

And also on my men servants and my maid servants, I will pour out my spirit in those days. Now notice this. God says, I'm going to pour out my spirit on everybody.

And they're going to prophesy. Do you see in this a fulfillment of Moses' wish? Would to God that all the Lord's people were prophets and that he would put his spirit upon them? The prophet Joel says what Moses wished for was in fact in agreement with God's very wishes. And the promise of the new covenant is this is what God intended to do, to put his spirit upon everybody so they might prophesy.

So on the day of Pentecost, when they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, what happens? Peter says, this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And he quotes this very passage. So he indicates that what Moses had wished for and Joel had prophesied was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost in the waiting believers in the upper room.

If you're interested in the actual verse, it's Acts 2, verse 16 where Peter said, but this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And then he goes on to quote it. Now here we have a very important thing here.

Because on the day of Pentecost, every Christian, 120 of them, were baptized in the Holy Spirit. This in fulfillment to a promise that God had made that all flesh, he's going to put his spirit upon all flesh. This could be certainly seen as an argument for all Christians being baptized in the Spirit, having God put his spirit upon them.

And indeed, it is quite clear in the book of Acts this was a priority. If somebody was found who had been converted and there was some question as to whether the Holy Spirit had yet come upon them, whether they had received this gift, whether they had been baptized in the Holy Spirit, the first order of business was to attend to that very thing. When Philip's converts were visited by Peter and John, they wasted no time.

As soon as they discerned that these people were genuine Christians, they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. He came upon them. Likewise, when Paul met the twelve in Ephesus.

The twelve, he said, what's going on? Have you received the Spirit or not? They said, no, never heard of him. So, he converted them and then wasting no time after that, he laid hands on them and they also received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now, what is the relationship of the baptism of the Holy Spirit with conversion and salvation? On the one hand, I have suggested that you can see a distinction between the two.

That a person might be converted at one time and baptized in the Holy Spirit at a later time. Now, of course the apostles are an example of this, but it's very dangerous to try to use the experience of the apostles as normative. Because they were not normal guys.

I mean, Jesus did a lot of things with them he didn't do with other people. He made promises to them he didn't make to other people. The apostles were definitely in a class by themselves.

And while many things about their experience might be normative for all Christians, we can't be sure that any particular thing that happened to them can be expected for all Christians necessarily. But we do see, at least in their case, Jesus breathing on them, commanding them to receive the Holy Spirit. I believe there's evidence that they did, but they had yet to be baptized in the Spirit later, several weeks later.

Now, even if their experience is not normative, it would seem to illustrate that one can have the Holy Spirit without being yet baptized in the Holy Spirit. Whether he's an apostle or a non-apostle, the issue is the same. Can a person have the Spirit and not be baptized in the Spirit? It would appear to be the case with the apostles.

Likewise with Saul of Tarsus. As near as I can ascertain, he was saved on the road to Damascus. He called Jesus his Lord.

He seemed to take that serious. He spent three days contemplating. I'm sure that he was a believer during those three days.

And then comes Ananias, lays hands on him, baptizes him in water, and lays hands on him so he might be filled with the Holy Spirit. It would appear that Saul also received the baptism of the Spirit separately, although much sooner after conversion than the others, within three days. The men in Samaria were converted under Philip's preaching.

There doesn't seem to be anything exceptional about these people that would prevent them from automatically being baptized in the Holy Spirit on conversion, if that is the norm or if that always happens. They were not apostles. They were ordinary guys, unbelievers who got saved.

And yet, they were converted. I don't think the Bible leaves us in any doubt of that. They believed.

They were baptized. Jesus said, whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved. The Bible says they believed.

They were baptized. There was great joy. There was the fruit of their salvation.

But when the apostles came down, there was the laying on of hands and the receiving of the Spirit coming upon them separate from their conversion. Likewise in the twelve men in Ephesus that Paul encountered in Acts 19. Now here, they were baptized in the Spirit the same day.

They were converted, probably within a few moments. The Bible says Paul baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then when they came up out of the water, he laid his hands on them and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Obviously, there was not much of a time lag there. But, time lag or no, his laying hands on them was a separate action from baptizing them in water. He did not assume simply because they had believed and been baptized in water, therefore they were already filled with the Holy Spirit.

There was a separate act subsequent to this, even if it was the next moment, which I think he did it because he thought it was necessary. He may have done it just for the sake of theatrics, but there wasn't a very large audience, only twelve people there. And I think he did it because he figured that was necessary for them.

He had asked them earlier if they had received the Spirit. It was clear they hadn't. Once he got them saved, the next thing to do was so that they might receive the Spirit, he laid his hands on them, which was, of course, something that happened a number of times in the book of Acts.

Now, there is at least one case we know of in the book of Acts where people received the Holy Spirit in the full sense of that word at the moment they believed. And that was in the house of Cornelius. There, the sermon hadn't even ended.

There wasn't even an altar call yet. In fact, if they'd waited long enough, there might not have been one because we never read of any altar calls in the Bible. But nonetheless, Peter hadn't even come to a conclusion.

He hadn't even given the poem yet. You know, a good sermon always has three points in a poem. And his sermon had not even reached any kind of resolution, yet the Spirit fell upon them.

They prophesied, they spoke in tongues, all the phenomena that occurred on the day of Pentecost, and that was the moment they believed. Now, here's a mystery. Why did this happen to those people the moment they believed, and yet we read of some other cases where people became believers and it didn't happen to them at the same time? I do not know the answer to that.

Sorry to raise a question that I don't have. You're used to me raising a question and then giving you the profound answer, right? Well, I can raise the question and say, I don't know. I don't know why it happened that way in that case and not in others.

And since it is so different in each case, we cannot establish any norms. With the exception that we can say, I think, that taken together, these five instances give the distinct impression that some persons can be true believers, and therefore they must have the Holy Spirit in them if they're true believers. But still, it remains for them to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Now, against this view, there are several things to be said. One of them is the verse we looked at in 1 Corinthians 12. 1 Corinthians 12 and verse 13 says, For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.

Now, since Paul associates the baptism by the Holy Spirit as that which puts us into the body of Christ, it would seem to follow that those who do not have the baptism of the Holy Spirit are not yet in the body of Christ. And that would be a very uncharitable thing to say about anyone who is a true believer, that they're not in the body of Christ. We will not allow ourselves to think such things, and therefore we say, this is an indicator that all Christians have the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Now, there are some considerations here that might draw us away from a dogmatic assertion along these lines. One is, A, he does not say baptized with the Spirit, he says by one Spirit. Now, this may be a minor point, it may be an insignificant point.

It is possible that being baptized by the Spirit is the same thing as being baptized with the Holy Spirit or in the Holy Spirit. It's possible that these terms are all interchangeable. And if so, then I can raise no objection.

I want to say, though, there is a possibility that they're not talking about exactly the same thing. The wording is different, it may be deliberate. To be baptized with the Holy Spirit or in the Holy Spirit seems to be saying that the Holy Spirit is the element into which you are baptized.

In fact, the Bible specifically says that it's Jesus who does that. If you've been baptized in the Spirit, you are baptized by Jesus in the Holy Spirit, because on the day of Pentecost, Peter said, It is this Jesus who you crucified, who is now at the right hand of God, who has poured out this which you now see and hear, namely the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It's Jesus who did the baptizing there.

Likewise, that's what John the Baptist predicted. I baptize with water, but he that comes after me, meaning Jesus, will baptize with the Holy Spirit. So the baptizer, in the case of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is Jesus.

Whereas in 1 Corinthians 12, 13, it would appear that the baptizer is the Holy Spirit. And therefore, some other phenomenon than the baptism in the Holy Spirit might arguably be in view here. Now, I would point out to you that elsewhere, Paul frequently spoke about being baptized into Christ.

He associated this with water baptism. But no doubt, water baptism to him was simply a symbol outwardly of something that was a reality inwardly, conversion. Having died with Christ and risen to a new life, we emblemize that inward reality by going out and being water baptized.

But it could be said that perhaps Paul was thinking along these lines, we were baptized into Christ by the Spirit. We were baptized in water by some minister who put us under the water. But our actually coming into Christ, or into the body, we're baptized by one Spirit into the body.

A man baptized me in water. But the actual into Christ aspect of my conversion was an act of the Holy Spirit. He's the one who did that.

No man could do that. And it's possible that when he says, by one Spirit we were all baptized in one body, he's thinking of conversion. Especially the phenomenon which is depicted in water baptism.

And he may not be thinking at all of the phenomenon called the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Hard to say. Hard to say.

But there is another consideration. Even if we would assume, for the sake of argument, that Paul is here talking about the baptism in the Holy Spirit, when he says, by one Spirit we were all baptized in one body. The fact is, he was writing to a particular group of people.

And it is my opinion that he had no idea that you and I would be reading this letter. Or that Christians of any other age would be. He might have wished it or hoped it, but I don't know that Paul had information given to him that his letters would be collected in a group of writings and later called the New Testament and all Christians throughout history afterwards would read it.

He was writing to real people who had written him an actual letter. He was responding to their letter. According to 1 Corinthians 7. He says, now concerning the things of which you wrote to me.

And so he's basically writing the rest of the letter after chapter 7 to a group of people in response to a letter they wrote to him. And he's answering their questions about their life. And to these people he says, we have all been baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ.

Now even if he means by this the baptism in the Spirit. What he is describing could be true of him and his readers. And yet not be true of every believer of all times.

Particularly if we consider this likely fact. A. When Paul converted people, according to Acts 19. He immediately afterwards laid hands on them and they got baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Therefore anyone who was converted by Paul. We must assume also got baptized in the Holy Spirit the same day. Because that was Paul's practice.

And no doubt Paul's companions who were baptized followed the same practice. Therefore these Corinthians who were also Paul's converts. No doubt after being water baptized had hands laid upon them.

This was Paul's apparent practice. And were baptized in the Holy Spirit the very day. Probably a moment after their conversion.

Or after the water baptism at least. Therefore there would be a very close association in their mind. With the baptism in the Holy Spirit and their salvation experience.

It would be similar to Peter saying in 1 Peter chapter 3. Baptism meaning water baptism. Now saves us. Well we know that is not exactly true.

If you want to press it. It is not water baptism that saves in itself. And he tries to clarify that.

Not the washing away the filth of the flesh. But the answer of a good conscience toward God. But water baptism was so closely.

Was part of that whole complex. Of events that happened the moment they were converted. They believed.

They repented. They got water baptized. Hands were laid upon them.

They were baptized in the Spirit. All this was normal practice as I understand it in the early church. Judging from the patterns in the book of Acts.

I think it is safe to conclude that at least there is a possibility. That these Corinthians. Had all received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In conjunction with their salvation experience. The very day of their salvation. And probably immediately upon their water baptism.

And it is as true. To say they were saved. Through being baptized in the Spirit.

As to say as Peter does. You were saved by water baptism. But neither is exactly true.

You are really saved by faith. But in the normal practice that was universal. Among Paul's churches apparently.

People believed. Be baptized in water. Be baptized in the Spirit.

All in rapid succession. So that he could write to this particular group of people. As real people.

Who really had had that experience. To say. You know we were all baptized into the body.

By the Spirit. And he could mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If he wished.

And it could be true of them. But it would not necessarily follow. That the same thing would have been true.

Of the Samaritan believers. Before Peter and John got to them. Or of the Ephesian people.

Before Paul laid his hands on them. Or whatever. Of course he did do the same thing in Ephesus there.

As we probably did in Corinth. So what I'm saying is. When we read the epistles.

We have to realize there was a real audience there. Paul knew their faces. He had them in his mind.

When he spoke to them. When he said you. And when he said we.

There were real people involved. And if in fact. They had all been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The same day they were converted. Which seems to have been the universal practice. Of the church.

If that was true. So then Paul could say such a thing as that to them. And yet you might encounter today.

Two thousand years later. Persons. Who were not baptized in the Spirit.

The same day they were converted. In which case. What was said of the Corinthians.

In this case would not necessarily be universally true of those people. And since. To my thinking.

The book of Acts throughout. Describes this as a separate thing. From salvation.

Except for the house of Cornelius. Every other one of the four cases. Sometimes apostles.

Sometimes non-apostles. Samaritans. Ephesians.

Doesn't matter which group you look at. In all the cases. They believed first.

Were baptized in water second. And then separately. Either a moment later.

Three days later. Weeks later. An indefinite period later.

They were baptized in the Holy Spirit. Now. I mean without trying to make any of those things.

The norm. I would say the data indicates. That the baptism of the Spirit.

Was a separate thing. Although. Typically.

Administered at the same time. As water baptism. It was a separate act.

The fact that Paul. After he baptized these people. Brought them out of the water.

Then he laid his hands on them. Suggests that there was a separateness. About the different aspects.

Of his ministry to them. And in some cases. That separation between them.

Was more than a few minutes. In Saul's own case. At his conversion.

It was three days. And in the case of others. It could have been weeks.

In the case of modern people. Where the church has neglected. A great deal of New Testament practice.

It could be years or a lifetime. Now. I could be entirely wrong about this.

But. I'm trying to work with the little data we have. In the Bible.

And that's all I'm trying to work with. There is another objection. That is often raised.

I've heard it many times. Raised against. The idea of a. Subsequence.

To the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is the doctrine of subsequence. You see.

Persons who are. Generally people who are not charismatic. And not Pentecostal.

People who don't believe. That the gifts of the Spirit are for today. Also generally do not believe.

That the baptism of the Spirit. Is separate from conversion. There's not a. You won't find this always to be the case.

But. But it is. It is usually safe to say.

That if a person does not believe. The gifts of the Spirit are for today. They probably also do not believe.

In the doctrine of subsequence. They probably believe. That everyone who is saved.

Is baptized in the Spirit. And they would use. First Corinthians.

Twelve. Thirteen. In my experience.

They all use this verse. To prove it. As I said.

I'm not sure this verse. Proves it. It may.

But it may not. There are some other considerations. Very reasonable ones.

It seems to me. That could remove it. From the evidence.

Against. The doctrine of. Subsequence.

So. We're left with some uncertainty. About that.

And necessarily so. But. But.

Yes. One of the real objections. That are raised.

By. Typically. Non charismatic people.

Against charismatics. Is that charismatics. By their doctrine.

Pentecostals. By their doctrine of subsequence. Are creating two classes.

Of Christians. The haves. And the have nots.

And they feel like. This causes division. In the body of Christ.

Now. To my mind. This is an argument.

Based more on emotion. Than on. Thinking clearly.

There are clearly. In. Judging by many different criteria.

In the body of Christ. There are those. Have correct doctrines.

About. Certain issues. And there are those.

Who don't have correct doctrines. About certain issues. That's a spiritual benefit.

To have the correct doctrine. But not all have it. There are those.

Who have been healed. Of their sickness. There are Christians.

Who have not been healed. Of their sickness. Some have gotten a healing.

Some haven't. There are therefore. Haves and have nots.

There are those. Who have been delivered. From demons.

And there are those. Who have been healed. And there are those.

Who. According to some at least. Have not yet been delivered.

From demons. Though they're already saved. All of this is to say.

There are spiritual advantages. That are no doubt available. To all Christians.

But not all Christians. Have them. They can.

But they don't necessarily. Have them. There is sometimes.

A subsequence. To the receiving. Of some spiritual benefit.

That is the common. Currency. Of all believers.

That is to say. It's. It's the birthright.

Of all believers. But to say. It's a birthright.

Doesn't mean that. Believers have laid hold of it. Or that they have received it.

It is your privilege. To search the scriptures. And to understand the truth.

Some scriptures. Some Christians. Don't search the scriptures.

Much. Or very well. Or at all.

And therefore. They have much less understanding. Of the truth.

Are they have nots. I would say so. But that doesn't create.

Like an elite class. In the church. It is simply saying.

Whosoever will make up. It's the same complaint. That the world makes about us.

As Christians. As Christians in general. Well.

We make the world. A bunch of haves and have nots. We have this narrow mindedness.

You know. Only those who. Receive Christ.

Can be saved. But what about all those. Good old Muslims.

And Jews. And Buddhists. And Hindus.

You know. How can you be so narrow minded? You're. You're being divisive.

You're creating an elite class. Well. So be it.

If what we're saying is true. If you want to call that elitism. Fine.

But it's not really elitism. Because it's. Listen.

You can come to. It's a narrow gate. But it's big enough for you to get through.

There's no one who can't come. So. Yeah.

We do. Christianity. Is a have or have not kind of an issue.

He that has the son has life. He that has not the son of God has not life. And even after you have the son.

There are some other things. Which in the process of your Christian living. You may yet come into.

Hopefully. I certainly hope that what I had. The moment I was saved.

Is not all I'm ever going to have as a Christian. In terms of spiritual maturity. Glory to God.

Grasping of the truth. Spiritual gifts and benefits. I'm sure there's many many things.

That I have yet to gain. In. Which are really the birthright of all Christians.

But I have not yet. Apprehended. Including perfection.

Now. What I'm saying is. To suggest that the doctrine of subsequent.

That the baptism of spirit is subsequent. To conversion. Or at least separate from it.

May happen at the same time. As in the house of Cornelius. And with many people.

I'm convinced it has. There are many people. Who've never had a subsequent baptism of spirit.

But I'm quite convinced. That at the moment they were saved. They were baptized in the spirit.

Why it happened to them at the same time. And didn't happen to me at the same time. I don't know.

But. But that's not a problem to me. I'm not.

I'm not trying to create. A class of elites. I'm not trying to say.

If you didn't have a subsequent baptism of spirit. Like I did. Then you don't have.

What I have. I'm willing to say. Everybody has it.

If they do. I'm not trying to exclude anyone. I'm just trying to say.

What does the Bible say about this? The baptism of spirit. The baptism of spirit. Appears to be treated.

As a separate matter. From water baptism. And from conversion.

And while it is the ideal. And the privilege of all believers. To receive all of this at once.

And no doubt typically. Everyone in the New Testament did. In the early days.

Yet it does. It is not an obvious fact. That all Christians do it.

I have met Christians. Who have not been water baptized yet. That certainly would be an anomaly.

Paul didn't know of such a phenomenon. In any of his letters. He never heard of a non-baptized Christian.

Likewise. He probably only rarely heard of Christians. Who had not yet been baptized in the spirit.

Like the case of the Samaritans. And a few others. And certainly a Christian.

Who has not yet been baptized. Is a have not. In one sense.

Sure there are have's and have not's. That's what life is all about. We're not into some kind of equality.

That is of a. You know. A communistic. You know.

No one has anything. No one else has. But we.

We do believe. That all can have the fullness. Of what God has given us.

As our birthright. But that is not the same thing. As saying we all have it now.

It is something. Into which. You know.

By stages. By crossing different thresholds. We come to different points of maturity.

To tell you the truth. Let me clarify this very much. There is.

In particular. Let me say this. Some charismatics.

Also don't believe. In the doctrine of subsequence. John Wimber.

And what is commonly called the third wave. Of the charismatic movement. Do not believe.

In the Pentecostal doctrine. Of the subsequence. Of the Baptist knowledge.

But they do believe. In the gifts of the spirit. In that respect.

They're like Pentecostals. But they don't believe. In the doctrine of subsequence.

Which means. In that respect. They're like Baptists.

And other non charismatic types. Those people do. However.

Believe in. Subsequent. In fillings.

You see. The persons in question. Actually believe this.

That the moment you're saved. You are baptized in the Holy Spirit. However.

Being filled with the Holy Spirit. Is something else altogether. You may be saved.

And not yet filled with the Holy Spirit. And being filled with the spirit. Is evident by.

The exhibition of spiritual fruit. And walking in the spirit. And so forth.

And a person might need to be filled with the spirit. Repeatedly. It is a condition.

Needs to be maintained. In Ephesians chapter five. And verse eighteen.

Ephesians five eighteen. Paul said. Do not be drunk with wine.

But be filled. And though I'm not a Greek scholar. Those who know more about it.

Than I do. Have told me. That the Greek tense.

Of that word. Is be. Being filled.

That is. Can keep being filled. Don't just get filled.

But be being filled. With Holy Spirit. This is a walk.

A maintenance program. You have to walk in the spirit. Just the fact.

That you got. Baptized in the spirit. Doesn't guarantee.

That you are now. Filled with the spirit. You need to be being filled.

This is a relationship. Like any other. Relationships break down.

Where communication. Or lack of trust. Or other factors.

Come in. And drive a wedge. And it is possible.

That you may have had. A good relationship. With the Holy Spirit.

At one time. And it may have deteriorated. Now.

And you need to be being filled. Again. Now.

The difference between. A person like myself. Who believes in the doctrine.

Of subsequence. And a person who does not. Will often be only in this.

I believe that all Christians. Have the Holy Spirit. But that many.

Are not filled with the spirit. And therefore need to be subsequently filled. The person who does not believe.

Or does not talk that way. Believes that all Christians. Have the baptism of spirit.

But need to be subsequently filled. You see. The only difference I can really see.

In the reality. There is no difference in the reality. Of what these two parties are saying.

The difference is in the way of speaking. The latter group. Are saying.

When the Holy Spirit comes in. You have conversion. That is what is called.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit. And all Christians have that. But they would agree with me.

In saying that. That does not guarantee. That the person is filled with the spirit.

And therefore they would agree with me. That there might be many times. Subsequently.

When a person needs to be. Or get filled with the spirit. The difference is that.

The first time someone gets filled with the spirit. Is what I understand to be. Referred to as the baptism of the spirit.

They simply refer the same term. To the other experience. We both believe in both phenomena.

See. Both camps believe. That all Christians have the Holy Spirit.

Both camps believe. That Christians need to be filled with the spirit. And sometimes that does not happen.

At the moment of conversion. But it has to happen subsequently. The only question is.

Which of these two things. Are we going to label. The baptism of the spirit.

So in my opinion. There is nothing other than. Linguistic difficulties here.

Semantic problems. It is a labeling question. And therefore.

I am not at all. Excited about. Whatever controversy.

May be generated over this issue. I can get along very well. With a Baptist.

Or a Methodist. Or a Mennonite. Or a Presbyterian.

Or someone who. Who does not believe in the doctrine of subsequence. Or.

You know. Any number of denominational people who do. Not believe in the doctrine of subsequence.

But. They do believe in the need to be filled with the spirit. And they may not call that.

The baptism of the spirit. I do not care what they call it. Christianity is not a labeling game.

Christianity is a reality game. And the reality is. We need to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

If you have not been filled with the spirit. You need to be filled with the spirit. If.

You have been filled with the spirit. And have fallen away from that. You may need to be.

Refilled with the Holy Spirit. And the fact that you are born again. Is not necessarily a guarantee.

That you are filled with the spirit. Just because you have been born again. Regardless of whether we say.

You were baptized in the spirit then or not. That is just a way of talking. The real issue is how you are living.

And that is the real. And only important point. Now.

I actually hope to cover all of this. In one session. It is quite clear.

That this is going to take two sessions. We need to get. In our next session.

On this subject. We will go into the question of. Is tongues.

The evidence. Of the baptism of spirit. How does one.

Biblically. How does one. Be filled with the spirit.

What does one have to do. What is the relation between that. And the laying on of hands.

Of course. Laying on of hands. Is a separate subject.

We will also take separately later. And then of course. I think I will go ahead.

And include a unit on. How to be being filled. How to stay filled.

How to maintain. A fullness of the spirit in your life. Those issues are all related to baptisms.

Especially the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And. By the way.

All that I have said. Like I said. Is not.

A major issue in terms of the subsequence. Or the labeling. The real issue has to do with.

Whether you are. Given over. To the Holy Spirit.

And he is. And it is his power. That you are living your Christian life through.

The labels may be interchangeable. I don't think they technically are. But.

As far as the way we get along. With other people. They certainly are.

And there is no reason to be. Too territorial. Or argumentative.

About those kinds of things. Okay. Well.

We are. Pretty much. Ready to quit here.

So. Take a break. Music.

Music. Music. Music.

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